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Home > Gametype Discussion
By ShocKWav3 | Published: July 31, 2009 10:46pm EST

As everyone probably realizes, gametype decisions are one of, if not the most discussed topic among pros. A lot of us are passionate about what we believe and it seems that at least in the area of gametype discussion, pros have a hard time coming to any sort of agreement. We all have our own opinions and defend them mercilessly, sometimes even stooping down to MLG forum troll levels and flaming each other in the Pro forum (which by the way, is not as sweet as all of you are probably imagining it to be). Right now, the big topic of discussion is whether or not we as pros feel that Lockdown Ball is a better gametype than Pit KOTH. I actually haven’t posted on this topic in the pro thread, but instead I decided to think about it more in depth and make it part of my blog, allowing for you, the community, to leave some feedback as to what you agree or disagree with.

 

Lockdown Ball

 

The first few times I played Lockdown Ball, I was disgusted with the gametype. The first obvious flaw in my mind is that this was a Foundry map. Many people who know my position on gametypes know that I absolutely hate Foundry. The idea of playing a map where there is a noticeable screen lag in my mind is not good competitively. The second problem with Lockdown is the spawns. While pros were discussing the gametypes before Columbus, a lot of players (especially the players from Str8) were highly opposed to Lockdown and had a lot of clips of ridiculous spawns. I personally had a collection of some ridiculous spawns on the map, spawning directly behind players in the bases or directly in front of them in various parts of the map. But as the community has been playing Lockdown more, I feel as if the amount of these random and ridiculous spawns had decreased. It has gotten to the point that we all expect some of these spawns and therefore they are not believed to be random anymore. Granted, there are some ridiculous spawns almost every game, but gameplay has evolved to the point where it renders these spawns mostly irrelevant. I’ve yet to see a spawn in the last two months in Lockdown Ball that completely and drastically changed the outcome of the game. If it happens, which I’m not saying it doesn’t anymore, it happens rarely. I’ve watched a good amount of VoD of Lockdown ball, and each has been a good game won by the team that was playing and using teamwork better, which is what a good, competitive gametype should have happen.

Those are the two flaws I see in the gametype. The first flaw, the map being on Foundry, is the most glaring and in my mind, important problem but it is also easily fixed. I have brought this idea up to MLG but have heard nothing about it, but it’s pretty simple; just remake the map on Sandbox. I don’t understand why this is such a problem. The forgers are all ridiculous, so I doubt recreating the map on Sandbox would be a problem in that sense. There is also a lot more freedom with the forging on Sandbox, with more useful pieces. There is a possibility that the map geometry could actually improve on Sandbox (in my mind, it’s more of a probability than possibility). Add that to the fact that there is not nearly the screen lag on Sandbox as there is on Foundry, and the gametype could actually be improved dramatically.

 

Here are some good Lockdown Ball games from the previous two tournaments.

 

iGotUrPistola in the Meadowlands Finals against Instinct

http://www.mlgpro.com/content/link/276881/IGotUrPistola

 

TC Legend in LBR8 in Columbus against Instinct

http://www.mlgpro.com/content/link/284024/Legend

 

Both of these games are good examples of Lockdown Ball and how it can be played effectively.

 

Pit KOTH

 

            Many people within the MLG community are no strangers to this gametype. Pit KOTH was on the circuit during the entire ’08 season. While many people are probably remembering a bunch of the good times they’ve had playing this gametype, I’m sure they forget all of the frustrations and problems that they have all experienced. One of the first major problems with this gametype has always been the spawns. Unlike Lockdown, the spawns on Pit KOTH are terrible spawns, as opposed to good spawns. Nothing is more frustrating than spawning in the opposite mauler, at least twenty seconds away from the hill twice or even three times in a row. Add that to the sometimes random spawns in the mauler that the hill is at, or where the hill is going to be at, and I honestly think that Pit KOTH is one of the most spawn influenced gametypes MLG has ever had. Try to remember all of those times you’ve played the gametype, and thought to yourself how much different the game would have gone if only you didn’t spawn where you did, or if the other team didn’t get that lucky spawn. The one thing this gametype does have going for it in my mind is that it is on a normal, Bungie created map. Like I’ve said in the Lockdown section, I really dislike Foundry maps. The hills are very fairly placed and it does take skill in order to control or attack the hills. The problem, like I stated earlier, is the amount of time it takes in order to engage the other team, especially when it comes to the base hills as well as the consistently frustrating spawns. If you want to see what I mean, watch this game from Vegas Finals ’08 from Anarchy’s point of view against Str8 Rippin in the WBF.

 

http://www.mlgpro.com/content/link/253334/Anarchy

 

At the end of this game, Anarchy gets a ridiculously lucky spawn and we win the game because of it. This is just one example I could find, but I’m sure if I dug deeper and watched more Pit King games, I would have found a few more games such as this. Unfortunately, I have seen too many games on Pit KOTH that have been too spawn influenced.

 

Here’s the same game, from Snipedown’s viewpoint. Watch it if you want to see a sick Pit KOTH gameplay.

http://www.mlgpro.com/content/link/253350/Snipedown

 

My Decision

 

            Personally, I really don’t see either one of these gametypes as an improvement over the other. I guess if I had to decide, I would currently say Lockdown Ball primarily for the fact that it is the gametype that has been played most recently. I’m more used to it as a player and I feel more comfortable playing it as opposed to going back to a gametype that has already been removed once before. I believe Lockdown has gotten to the point that spawns do not make or break the game anymore, as teams have learned to control the map more effectively. Also, I think Lockdown requires more teamwork and a team shot than Pit King, along with a more skillful use of the objective. It’s easy to sit in a hill when it’s on the side of a base, whereas it is hard to move the ball around away from the opposing team and keep control. The one major knock in my mind is that Lockdown is a Foundry map, which could be fixed if it is remade on Sandbox (where there is a less noticeably screen lag, or none at all). So I’m going to go with Lockdown Ball.

 

Gametime / Team Scrims

 

            If you are interested in gametime with any of the members of Carbon, check out our bios on Xbox Live. Our gamertags are The ShocKWav3, Yhslaw, Naded, and DDefy. These are our only tags, so if you are buying lessons or gametime from a different gamertag, STOP! There are a lot of people trying to take advantage of you by scamming, and it is your job as a consumer to inform yourself. Also, if your team would like to scrim us, send a message to either Yhslaw or The ShocKWav3 and we’ll get back to you. Oh, and I’ve been trying to put a gameplay up in the gameroom. It’s an Onslaught Flag game from Talent’s LAN earlier in the summer, but since I don’t have a capture card I’ve been having a hard time getting it up. Hopefully it’s up soon, and I’ll edit the blog when I get the link.

 

Next Blog

 

            For my next blog, I am thinking about doing what Neighbor did and trying to answer a bunch of questions from the community. If you want to comment on the gametype dispute, go ahead, or if you want to ask a question for my next blog leave a question in the comment. Thanks a lot guys, and I hope you are all enjoying your summer!

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Posted by: psyclone18
Good read ,i agree that (08.01.09 3:14am)

Good read ,i agree that foundry maps suck the MLG forgers should just remake all the foundry maps on sandbox.
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Posted by: ManVVithoutModem
hey (08.01.09 9:37am)

i'll capture it if you want just recommend it to manwithoutmodem
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Posted by: nektaru
Shockwav3, have you guys (08.01.09 10:18am)

Shockwav3, have you guys been meshing well as a team? Have you tamed Naded, or does he still run off on his own? How good are you guys in comparison to the old Carbon? Good blog, btw.
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Posted by: II7_HUNTER_II7
Hey shockwave good blog :) (08.01.09 1:06pm)

Hey shockwave good blog :) hows practice coming for dallas? have you been keeping track of the forge forum map pack? there should be some good maps in there also check out chromatic in there currently there. what weapons would you like to see in the new maps? PR?
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Posted by: VeRZiTy
The sandbox thing is a good (08.01.09 1:09pm)

The sandbox thing is a good idea. Do you think this carbon team would beat the old FB at H2? How did carbon get its name? Whos your favroite pro
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Posted by: deathlos
Do you like the New Carbon (08.01.09 3:36pm)

Do you like the New Carbon over the Old Carbon? What do you think the Lowest your going to place in Dallas?
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Posted by: Mizzy
who do you think is the best (08.02.09 8:30am)

who do you think is the best player on the circuit?
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Posted by: zG_I_Chaos
great blog, made some good (08.02.09 12:58pm)

great blog, made some good points. i also think lockdown is better than pit king. but both game types their own flaws.
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Posted by: ALcO
"... I absolutely hate (08.02.09 7:01pm)

"... I absolutely hate Foundry. The idea of playing a map where there is a noticeable screen lag in my mind is not good competitively. " I have been saying this since early 2008. It is nothing other than an absolute joke that Foundry maps are used in competitive play. I'm not going to criticize them, but I would love (LOVE) to hear the opinion of some staffers on this. Browsing through the Shooters section of the forums makes me think that people are completely ignorant of this. It's so obvious, yet so annoying and impairing that I can't even play the game seriously. **I say early 2008 because other maps that have been used in play have the same problem, albeit less profound (Isolation, Guardian, Narrows). With the possibility of two new competitive maps coming out (regardless of the means of availability), and a number of highly responsive maps that already exist, I will be appalled if this issue is disregarded and ignored again. A league that prides itself (and rightfully so) with the highest levels of competition requires gametypes with the highest competitive standards.
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Posted by: b0b43
I agree with Hunter. If you (08.03.09 5:58am)

I agree with Hunter. If you want to take a look at some Sandbox maps, check out the map pack thread because 15-20 Sandbox maps made by top forgers will be out by the end of this month. It would be absolutely fantastic to have pro player support. Oh, and check out Chromatic too ;) /shameless self-promotion.
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