Official Halo 3 Competitive Discussion

[BLiTZ]

Obviously we only have a small taste of the game from the beta...but recently we've been getting news of things like the flamethrower and other equipment items. How do you guys think this will fit in to competitive play? Constructive thoughts only please.

Disclaimer: Everything said in this thread is merely speculation. Please don't fill it with "WELL WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE NO ONE KNOWS"

[BigGann]

I honestly think that the equpiment is going to be extremely interesting in competetive play. Especially since we have learned about such things as the flame grenade that can block doorways and such. While things like the rocket pod and portable turret will probably not be widely used, or even rarely seen, they could still make for some interesting turns in events.

The weapons seem to have a longer range and more accuracy, so that will make it easier to have larger maps in serious play, and still keep a very strong gameplay pace.

The items such as the power drainer and bubble shield while great, could be shunned in place of keeping a more simple play style in competition. Much like the previously mention misslepod and turret. The flame thrower, while cool, will probably be in that same catagory.

I do think there will be a slight lean in favor of objective games in H3. While vip has a lot of draw for being new and exciting, I personally think that games like KoTH and Oddball will be more widely used to make the games more fair.

[ALIENwolve]

Well, the flame thrower is another support weapon so all those will probably be grouped and possibly all out removed... sadly. I like the machine gun.

[l Claw l]

I think that equipment throws in a completely new way to create strategies and such. Imagine Beaver Creek, if they threw a Portable Lift on blue side it would be so much easier to get the rockets instead of red dominating completely. It just presents new ways to play the game. Who knows whether BC will be in Halo 3 though, but I'm just using it as an example.

I'm pretty sure the large weapons like the Missle Pod or the Flamethrower won't see too much use. If they even leave large weapons in, I can only imagine the flamethrower to be useful in blocking off passages or defending bases. However, the turret was pretty useful if you got in a closed area, that might see some use if MLG has any maps with turrets on it. Sanctuary had turrets, and I can imagine how destructive a turret would be in Ring 2, or perhaps for guarding the flag.

Time will only tell, I suppose.

[dan91bauer]

I think in terms of a starting weapon, we have to wait till we see the final designs of the BR and the Carbine. I think we could easily see the AR as a secondary weapon or at least see them on the maps to pick up as a secondary.

I also think that Forge is going to be the biggest tool to tweak maps and make them truly competitive. When we see bullsht and other crap that doesn't need to be in competitive play, we can just say, delete and remove them from the maps.

The fact that we can place any single weapon, equip and powerup anywhere on the map is a beautiful thing for competitive play.

I can't wait.

[BLiTZ]

Completely agree with AR secondary, I think it's a sick weapon but not sure if it can be the best starting. Gonna be VERY interesting to see how it all works out.

[Hitzel_89]

What about the good old BR vs Carbine argument?

Judging by the beta, I personally favor the Carbine as a starting weapon.

The only thing the BR has going for it is the fact that it is harder to use than the Carbine is, and takes more aiming skill in comparison.

However, the Carbine is more of an overall weapon compared to all of the other guns. It does a better job of forcing the other weapons to be used for their strengths, promoting their tactical use. I feel that the BR is unreliable and weak, and other weapons would be used simply because they are stronger than the starting weapon is.

This goes against Halo competitive cannon, in which the starting weapon is all-around useful while the normal weapons on the map beat the starting weapon only at their specific jobs.

I also think that the Carbine would promote teamwork and teamshooting, especially if it's autoaim is tuned down slightly in the final game. Combining fire will mean alot if the autoaim doesn't help sloppy shots hit, as it takes six shots minimum to kill.

The BR would definitely take teamwork to use aswell, but that teamwork will be easily ousted by players who picked up different weapons, such as the Carbine. That doesn't sound like an even playing field to me. Things need to be inherently balanced. Strats and teamwork need to be what gives a team an advantage.

Since I doubt MLG will be using dual wield weapons (the spiker had so much autoaim in the beta it was ridiculous...) besides Plasma (for it's use in teamshooting), I think the AR should only be used as a secondary if it's good for combining fire. Without the ability to headshot, it shouldn't be a primary choice otherwise.

Sorry if this sounds like a ramble. It's late.

[GunRanger]

ar shouldnt start cause if a team has sniper or sumthing your autimatically at a disadvantage.
Br start with ar secondary is what i want.

the br isnt weak i dont why ppl say that i had no trouble consistantly getting 4shots just have to aim differently than the h2 ccounterpart. the carbine is too easy to use and i hate the lack of ammo. the only prob the br had imo was long range, the spread would go all over the place at far distances ala prepatch h2, but if they tightened up the spread its great.

[Hitzel_89]

The Carbine has more shots in reserve in H3 than it did in H2.

[TWISTED-BULLET]

I think in terms of a starting weapon, we have to wait till we see the final designs of the BR and the Carbine. I think we could easily see the AR as a secondary weapon or at least see them on the maps to pick up as a secondary.

I also think that Forge is going to be the biggest tool to tweak maps and make them truly competitive. When we see bullsht and other crap that doesn't need to be in competitive play, we can just say, delete and remove them from the maps.

The fact that we can place any single weapon, equip and powerup anywhere on the map is a beautiful thing for competitive play.

I can't wait.


Some people have agreed with you about the assault rifle as a secondary weapon, in the beta I thought the assault rifle could be the secondary weapon also, but now I strongly dissagree with this.

I keep talking about halo 3 and situational weapons because of the lack of bxb and bxr, at close quarters there is nothing better than the shotty, sword and new dual weildable brute shotty( not sure how powerful this is). In halo 3 the assault rifle is a great weapon at close/midrange, it doesn't have the range that the BR has, but will destroy a BR player in the correct range. Halo 3's netcode has much more consistency with weapons like the assault rifle, actually most weapons even off host seemed quite consistent.

I'm not saying the assault rifle isn't a skilled weapon, but if I get the 1st shot with assualt rifle I can't see you coming back with a BR or the assault rifle. What I'm trying to say is; I think the skill level in halo 3 would completely dumbed down by this very powerful secondary weapon. Imagine midship with the assault rifle, I can use from p2 to red 1 quite easy, the weapon has alot range on it, and this would destroy competitive play in my opinion. At certain ranges nobody would be using BR's, and the BR is a more accurate weapon and a harder weapon to use and be good with.

Problem #2 - The problem with BR only starts is the weapons on map, BR starts create a way of play but the weapons on map dictate the way maps are played and how teams use strats. The biggest problem I see with BR starts, and we go back to situational weapons; is close range weapons like duals and shotguns. In halo 2 the glitches actually created balanced competitive play, to balance a shotgun, to balance a sword somewhat, this was a counter to the guy with which his weapon was better for the situation, bxr, bxb. It wasn't random luck, it created more dynamic gameplay and gave the BR only spawn guy much more options without weapons control. Halo 3 has counters but there now game dependant, the netcode is so good in halo 3 that the shotty even on live, even off host will destroy a close range BR player = you only have a BR and there's no way to counter it assuming both players are of equal skill.

This is obviously all speculation on my part because we didn't see all the weapons in the beta, but balancing halo 3 won't be as easy as everybody thinks, it's a completely different game - concerning weapons and power to halo 2. It took MLG a year or 2 years I think to find the best competitive settings for halo 2; we can't say for sure what the best way to setup halo 3 without playing it for awhile because it takes a long time to understand or completely understand the balance of a game.

[Pulser]

I think the BR should remain the starting weapon. It is the most versatile weapon in the game, period. Bubble shields, portable grav lifts, energy drainers, trip mines, and all that stuff should be completely removed from competitive play. There should be a way to toss the flag. In the beta, tossing the flag was not possible, and flag tossing was always such a massively important part of teamwork in Halo 1 and Halo 2.

[GunRanger]

why should they remove the equipment? It worked well in gameplay and wasnt overbalcned

[RedShift zX]

I think the BR should remain the starting weapon. It is the most versatile weapon in the game, period. Bubble shields, portable grav lifts, energy drainers, trip mines, and all that stuff should be completely removed from competitive play. There should be a way to toss the flag. In the beta, tossing the flag was not possible, and flag tossing was always such a massively important part of teamwork in Halo 1 and Halo 2.

Unless equipment is deemed unsuitable for competitive play..No it shouldn't be removed. Then were just playing H2 with prettier graphics & different maps. No. Though i dought that ALL of the different equipment pieces will be in competitive play...Same goes for the turreted weapons (Missle pod, Chain gun, FLamethrower). And yes flag tossing = good

[TWISTED-BULLET]

why should they remove the equipment? It worked well in gameplay and wasnt overbalcned


I agree, when the other team has a sniper bubble shields are useful, I don't see MLG removing equipment.

[z13k]

I wouldn't count out VIP. It seems competitively fit to me since there is no randomness. Other than the first vip, you know who on your team will be vip next and you can cause who will be vip next on the other team. Also with all the options you could make him weaker or simply make the vip a normal spartan with maybe a different color shielding or lighting around him(which i remember being an option when playing custom games even though i couldn't get it to work right at the time).

It could be interesting to watch how teams choose what to do with there vip, they could leave him in a corner some where away from battle but now they loose a man when fighting the opposition, or they could send the whole team but run the risk of giving the other team points, or if there in the lead they could sit back and make a defensive area somewhere, which will be risky if weapon spawns work the way they did in halo 1 since they will just wait and get all the best stuff outside of the area.

the only problem with this game type if played on the wrong map could cause really slow game play, but with a mark on his head and weapons being on constant respawn like in halo, instead of power weapon setup like in halo 2, I don't really see that being a big problem

[BLiTZ]

First VIP should be voted on ala the veto system, but I think the rest should be decided as they are right now. Like how Carbon had to switch who gets host and it affects their play, deciding who gets the first VIP could similarly give advantages depending on how they play it.

[Hitzel_89]

Yeah hopefully you can decide who your team's first VIP is in Custom games. You shoudl only be able to change for it in MM games if the team is all one party.

[Assas1nzero]

Some people have agreed with you about the assault rifle as a secondary weapon, in the beta I thought the assault rifle could be the secondary weapon also, but now I strongly dissagree with this.

I keep talking about halo 3 and situational weapons because of the lack of bxb and bxr, at close quarters there is nothing better than the shotty, sword and new dual weildable brute shotty( not sure how powerful this is). In halo 3 the assault rifle is a great weapon at close/midrange, it doesn't have the range that the BR has, but will destroy a BR player in the correct range. Halo 3's netcode has much more consistency with weapons like the assault rifle, actually most weapons even off host seemed quite consistent.

I'm not saying the assault rifle isn't a skilled weapon, but if I get the 1st shot with assualt rifle I can't see you coming back with a BR or the assault rifle. What I'm trying to say is; I think the skill level in halo 3 would completely dumbed down by this very powerful secondary weapon. Imagine midship with the assault rifle, I can use from p2 to red 1 quite easy, the weapon has alot range on it, and this would destroy competitive play in my opinion. At certain ranges nobody would be using BR's, and the BR is a more accurate weapon and a harder weapon to use and be good with.



I think the AR should be the secondary weapon because there's no BXR,BXB. And there will still be plenty of BR's since Bungie seems to have this huge love affair with big maps.

[BLiTZ]

Was there ever a reason posted for them not including headshots with the AR? I never really questioned it before.

[ALIENwolve]

Was there ever a reason posted for them not including headshots with the AR? I never really questioned it before.I can't remember the exact words but I believe it was because that would loosen the urge to get another weapon. The assault rifle's meant to be the all around weapon that is reliable, but you always want to get something else with it.

Besides, there's little difference with headshots. An unshielded player facing off against assault rifle fire is like taking a chainsaw to bare flesh... Except that chainsaw is launched by a crossbow that can fly halfway across the map.

[Hitzel_89]

I'm pretty sure the exact words were "We don't want the starting weapon to be able to get headshots, or else the game would be about headshots."

...

:banghead:

[VadeR]

AR with headshot would be retarded. AR never had headshots, and it shouldnt.

[lx_Nirvana_xl]

^^i agree

[TuRk 15]

[QUOTE=BLiTZ]Obviously we only have a small taste of the game from the beta...but recently we've been getting news of things like the flamethrower and other equipment items. How do you guys think this will fit in to competitive play? Constructive thoughts only please.

Dont really thinl flamethrower will be included in competitive play. With the new forge possibilities the other weapons, spawns etc will be interestin but i hope mlg makes the right decision and leaves flamethrower out

[laughinghyena21]

Its going to be interesting to see how the starting weapon will effect the overall gamplay, not to mention the new weapons will bring in a rush of new ways of playing the game (or maybe not) Also, and how long will Bungie take to balance out on certain aspects on the overall game.

Did it take MLG 2 years to get the right setting for its matches?

[GunRanger]

The one thing i think people are missing is that yes forge will change spawn points as to where they will spawn but what about how you spawn. is IT like h1 where it was based on ur teammates or like h2 where it was ddtermined by where youur enemy and teammates were. If it was like it was in the beta than that would be horrid

[.RaiNMaKeR]

The one thing i think people are missing is that yes forge will change spawn points as to where they will spawn but what about how you spawn. is IT like h1 where it was based on ur teammates or like h2 where it was ddtermined by where youur enemy and teammates were. If it was like it was in the beta than that would be horrid
What was it like in the beta? I never played it.