MLG Starting weapon.

[Ligster]

Judging off of the beta, what would you feel like the starting weapon should be in MLG. Me personally, I liked the Assault Rifle a lot to where it was my favorite weapon in the game to play with and use. But I'm just curious to know what you guys think.

also just trying to stir up discussion.

[OniChris]

Battle Rifle or Carbine.

[Hitzel_89]

Repost of what i wrote last night:

What about the good old BR vs Carbine argument?

Judging by the beta, I personally favor the Carbine as a starting weapon.

The only thing the BR has going for it is the fact that it is harder to use than the Carbine is, and takes more aiming skill in comparison.

However, the Carbine is more of an overall weapon compared to all of the other guns. It does a better job of forcing the other weapons to be used for their strengths, promoting their tactical use. I feel that the BR is unreliable and weak, and other weapons would be used simply because they are stronger than the starting weapon is.

This goes against Halo competitive cannon, in which the starting weapon is all-around useful while the normal weapons on the map only can beat the starting weapon only at their specific jobs.

I also think that the Carbine would promote teamwork and teamshooting, especially if it's autoaim is tuned down slightly in the final game. Combining fire will mean alot if the autoaim doesn't help sloppy shots hit, as it takes six shots minimum to kill.

The BR would definitely take teamwork to use aswell, but that teamwork will be easily ousted by players who picked up different weapons, such as the Carbine. That doesn't sound like an even playing field to me. Things need to be inherently balanced. Strats and teamwork need to be what gives a team an advantage.

Since I doubt MLG will be using dual wield weapons (the spiker had so much autoaim in the beta it was ridiculous...) besides Plasma (for it's use in teamshooting), I think the AR should only be used as a secondary if it's good for combining fire. Without the ability to headshot, it shouldn't be a primary choice otherwise.

Sorry if this sounds like a ramble. It's late.

[Ligster]

Repost of what i wrote last night:

What about the good old BR vs Carbine argument?

Judging by the beta, I personally favor the Carbine as a starting weapon.

The only thing the BR has going for it is the fact that it is harder to use than the Carbine is, and takes more aiming skill in comparison.

However, the Carbine is more of an overall weapon compared to all of the other guns. It does a better job of forcing the other weapons to be used for their strengths, promoting their tactical use. I feel that the BR is unreliable and weak, and other weapons would be used simply because they are stronger than the starting weapon is.

This goes against Halo competitive cannon, in which the starting weapon is all-around useful while the normal weapons on the map only can beat the starting weapon only at their specific jobs.

I also think that the Carbine would promote teamwork and teamshooting, especially if it's autoaim is tuned down slightly in the final game. Combining fire will mean alot if the autoaim doesn't help sloppy shots hit, as it takes six shots minimum to kill.

The BR would definitely take teamwork to use aswell, but that teamwork will be easily ousted by players who picked up different weapons, such as the Carbine. That doesn't sound like an even playing field to me. Things need to be inherently balanced. Strats and teamwork need to be what gives a team an advantage.

Since I doubt MLG will be using dual wield weapons (the spiker had so much autoaim in the beta it was ridiculous...) besides Plasma (for it's use in teamshooting), I think the AR should only be used as a secondary if it's good for combining fire. Without the ability to headshot, it shouldn't be a primary choice otherwise.

Sorry if this sounds like a ramble. It's late.I think MLG is going to need to factor in a what kind of levels are going to be in the final game, what extent forges powers can accomplish, and should there be multiple starting weapons like in H1.

[ALIENwolve]

Meh. Assault rifle start for the base. Since they have forge, they don't need to make a generic weapon start since they can place what will prove suitable around the spawns.

And I don't care what ya say, dual wielding was fun for backup weapons and short range dominance.

[Assas1nzero]

Finally Halo 3 gets its own boards. I think MLG should do what they used to do and Have human gametypes and covenant gametypes. Combine that with forge and all the maps and competitive Halo 3 would never get boring.

[u4iX]

AR Primary BR/Carbine Secondary

NOSTALGIC Y PRESS OFF SPAWN FTW!

[GunRanger]

AR Primary BR/Carbine Secondary

NOSTALGIC Y PRESS OFF SPAWN FTW!
switch it and you have what iwant. dont want to spawn and a sniper shooting at you and you die cuz you have the ar first

[LOA B4CKF1RE]

well from what i saw in the beta, imo the BR is a more skillful weapon then the carbine because of reasons like less auto aim. Thus this is good enough reason for me to want a BR start again.

[Harvey]

Well apparently the carbine has been toned down after the beta so its up in the air which is better now (carbine/br).

[xLocK n LoaD]

I liked the BR more than the Carbine in the beta, to me it just seemed better. I know it had less auto-aim but I still liked using it more than the Carbine because I felt better when I got a 4 shot with the BR, so if Halo 3 is an MLG gametype I'd like to see the BR stay as the MLG starting weapon.

[Effay]

The BR was too inconsistent at the longer ranges because of the spread. If you shoot perfectly at medium-long range, you may not get the four shot because of the spread. But with the Carbine, you either hit them or you don't. If you pull the trigger six times, you hit them each time and the last shot is a headshot, you'll get the kill. Period (barring OS and the like).

Of course, I think Bungie said they were nerfing the Carbine, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Hitzel_89]

I'd like to see the Carbine end up with less autoaim. More potential for skill that way, and more potential for teamshooting to matter.

[_Hybrid]

I actually thought that the Carbine was perfect in the beta and the BR was a little to hard to use. Rarely did I get 4 perfect headshots for the kill. People are saying well the BR was less autoaim so its harder to use so that should be the starting weapon. But look at Halo 2. The BR has way no much autoaim and it's still the starting weapon. So you can't use less autoaim as a way to make it the starting weapon unless you think the carbine should be the starting weapon in Halo 2 (which most don't).

I think the carbine should be the starting weapon. I loved it because it wasn't overpowered but just a good weapon all around. I could win long or short distances and that is what the starting weapon have the ability to do. The assult rifle could also in some spots be the starting weapon because it also was pretty balanced, but that would only be on certain occassions in which the carbine wouldn't fit the job.

[GunRanger]

I always gpt 4 shots in the beta you just have to aim a little lower though, but i a, curious to see the changes they ,ade to both.

[Hitzel_89]

Yeah, going for 3 body shots and a headshot was kinda important when using the BR in the beta. But still, the a Carbine with as much AA as the BR would be a better startign weapon, IMO.

[OMG itz LuNaTiC]

I think they should also keep the carbine because the br is not as effective as it is in halo 2 and thats with bxb and bxr and all the weapon glitches.

For now the more competitive weapon is the carbine. Shoots like a br on lan but its live.

[shadoweagle89]

Of course, I think Bungie said they were nerfing the Carbine, so we'll have to wait and see.

They did, listen to the end of the podcast.

[IamInFaMoUs]

I think the Needler is the most ovbious choice of a starting weapon

[IamInFaMoUs]

Thanks for the neg rep saying "bad attempt to make a funny"

when I said Needler is the msot ovbious choice <3

[Ligster]

Thanks for the neg rep saying "bad attempt to make a funny"

when I said Needler is the msot ovbious choice <3
-Rep for having an unoriginal name :)

[TheCarsonCity]

i really hope it's not the carbine... what an annoying sound that sh1t makes.. i dont know why they wouldnt keep it old school and go with the br.. and everything in the beta is just that, the beta. so im guessing that the br spread will be fixed and they wont make the sh1ty carbine more powerful than it......idk either way its gonna be a blast to play some new halo, i cant wait

[WMDistraction]

I think you should be able to modify the pistol to add a scope. That, Carson, would be "old school." ;)

[hovat]

I think you should be able to modify the pistol to add a scope. That, Carson, would be "old school." ;)

I'm hopeing that they had the pistol in the beta the way it was so bad kids wouldnt complain, and that they are actually going to bring it back for H3. :)

But then again, I can wish in one hand, and **** in the other.

[IxCoLd]

i believe the best starting weapon would be the needler.

[ALIENwolve]

i believe the best starting weapon would be the needler.The needler has issues at longer ranges.

[Rebmob]

I didnt have time to read all of your posts, but if MLG makes carbine the starting weapon... I swear that will be the last day I ever touch a xbox 360 controller. :P Battle Rifle all the friiiigggggggan way!

[wwgd]

carbine or br

[Rebmob]

carbine or br

Screw the carbine, Id RATHER HAVE THE NEW LAZER GUN!

[u4iX]

Screw the carbine, Id RATHER HAVE THE NEW LAZER GUN!
shaddup

carbine owns souls...
not as many as nexy but a sufficient ammount.

[Rebmob]

shaddup

carbine owns souls...
not as many as nexy but a sufficient ammount.

Lol :P Anyways it better be BR start. I dont feel like using the carbine. I love the way a four shot feels. :)

[Wags]

Initially I was thinking against the Carbine start idea (based off of the Beta) because it would usurp the weapons use in each game...an issue that we see looking at Halo 2. But assuming that MLG leaves in power weapons like the Spartan Laser and such, I don't think that the Carbine will be relied on as heavily as the BR was in Halo 2.

So I think the Carbine would provide an appropriate balance for the games. It has the power and RoF to kill quickly and keep the game's pace up, and it can also be beaten by power weapons around the map. By keeping faster games going and leaving the incentive to search for powerups and weapons, it seems to be a great choice.



Unfortunately this whole point may be moot on Sept 25, depending on if/how the Carbine's been tweaked.

[Effay]

Unfortunately this whole point may be moot on Sept 25, depending on if/how the Carbine's been tweaked.
They said in their most recent podcast they are nerfing the Carbine. They said that the combination of its range, rate of fire, and power was too much.

[Hitzel_89]

They said in their most recent podcast they are nerfing the Carbine. They said that the combination of its range, rate of fire, and power was too much.Or, they could simply tone down the autoaim for the Carbine and make it a skill weapon... but this is Bungie we're dealing with here...

Now if the BR is kept the same, both Rifles won't be able to handle close range weapons. Oh, joy.

[ALIENwolve]

Now if the BR is kept the same, both Rifles won't be able to handle close range weapons. Oh, joy.Well gee, maybe that's what was intended in the first place? Why are you so negative about this kind of stuff?

[Linty]

i say we spawn with needlers:)

[ALIENwolve]

i say we spawn with needlers:)It wasn't funny the first two times it was suggested. All needler games will be fun, though.

[Hitzel_89]

Well gee, maybe that's what was intended in the first place? Why are you so negative about this kind of stuff?If that happens, than there won't be an all around starting weapon like the BR and Pistol were in H2 and H1.

I don't mean to be too negative, I just don't want Halo 3 to suck if it doesn't have to. *sorry*

[ALIENwolve]

But if there's an all around weapon, what's the point of using any other weapon besides the one hit killers?

[GunRanger]

the reason h2 is an allround weapon in h2 is cause of the bxr. The br now will put an emphasis on picking up upclose weapons. even though i had no problem killing someone close range with the br in the beta

[Hitzel_89]

But if there's an all around weapon, what's the point of using any other weapon besides the one hit killers?
Why add excess weapons if you don't need them? All-around doesn't mean perfect. If you have a basic starting weapon that can be used for all jobs, and the weapons on the map that beat that starting weapon at their particular jobs, you have solid balance. Power weapons and items that spawn on timers should be what teams work for.

[Ligster]

the reason h2 is an allround weapon in h2 is cause of the bxr. The br now will put an emphasis on picking up upclose weapons. even though i had no problem killing someone close range with the br in the betaI'm still all for having an AR secondary now that I think about it. A short to mid range weapon, and a mid to long range. H1 style... sorta.

[Nytroh]

In the H3 beta i thought the new MLG wep would be either the Carbine or the Battle Rifle

[lx_Nirvana_xl]

BR start is what i want to see, (havent played the beta)

[Assas1nzero]

I think its obvious that the starting weapon should be the rocket laucher.

[MadDog2004]

I think its obvious that the starting weapon should be the rocket laucher.

this is exactly right don't forget gravity hammer as secondary

[isao44]

this is exactly right don't forget gravity hammer as secondary

lol.

anyway, i dont think we can really say until we find out how much the Carbine is nerfed. they said in the podcast that i was too powerful, but who knows it still might be better than the BR, we'll hav to see. but im confidant that MLG will make the right decision

[syph3r]

its definatly the carbine

[I Phade I]

Im going to agree with the people who say that it is too early to tell which weapon should be the start. We can make choices based off of the beta but the beta doesn't represent the final product.

I would however like to see a Carbine start with SMG secondary. I don't know exactly how this would work though. I think if the nerfing of the Carbine made the Rate of fire a bit slower and the Auto Aim down on it just a bit then it would be good. I like the idea of a 6 hits and your dead type of deal. With the BR its what, 12 bullets (or 4 shots if all 3 bullets hit). I think it should be, if you hit them, they die. Plus with 6 shots needing to be hit, it would promote even more team shooting. The accuracy of the Carbine would need to be upped from the H2 version. It needs to hit the middle of the reticule and not a random spot inside the reticule somewhere.

I say the SMG secondary as of right now because there are really no current up 'n close melee glitches that would allow the Carbine to be sufficient at close range. I say SMG and not AR because the AR completely tears people apart at even medium range. I think the Secondary weapon should be a close range combat weapon that still allows for melee's to come into play. If you ever experimented with the SMG's during the beta, they were a fairly long kill just shooting. Toss in a melee at the end and I can see some pretty good close range combat.

Welp, those are my opinions.

[xDecoy]

In the H3 beta i thought the new MLG wep would be either the Carbine or the Battle Rifle

Interesting observation.

[-Voodoo-]

Battle Rifle and Secondary Assault Rifle, thats perfect

[Assas1nzero]

Battle Rifle and Secondary Assault Rifle, thats perfect

That's what I think should happen.


I say the SMG secondary as of right now because there are really no current up 'n close melee glitches that would allow the Carbine to be sufficient at close range. I say SMG and not AR because the AR completely tears people apart at even medium range. I think the Secondary weapon should be a close range combat weapon that still allows for melee's to come into play. If you ever experimented with the SMG's during the beta, they were a fairly long kill just shooting. Toss in a melee at the end and I can see some pretty good close range combat.


That's a pretty good point, but I think the AR can serve the same purpose and I would rather have a pistol secondary than an SMG.

[-Voodoo-]

Cant you modify weapon damage now? MLG should make the pistol a 3sk and put that as secondary, that wouldnt be that bad either

[Thor_]

Cant you modify weapon damage now? MLG should make the pistol a 3sk and put that as secondary, that wouldnt be that bad eitherEven if you could do that, it would be a bad idea. Just because its called "the pistol" and can kill in 3 shots does not mean its the same as the beloved Halo 1 pistol.

Assuming nothing has changed since the beta, I would say AR/BR would be the best bet.

[-Voodoo-]

Even if you could do that, it would be a bad idea. Just because its called "the pistol" and can kill in 3 shots does not mean its the same as the beloved Halo 1 pistol.

Assuming nothing has changed since the beta, I would say AR/BR would be the best bet.

True but its the next best thing

[-Crafty-]

Well, seeing as how it is a well balanced game with the assault rifle start as default in Halo 3, I would think that it would be a fun game to watch.

But, the AR is not nearly powerful enough, or have a long enough range to be efficient as a MLG match starting weapon.

Battle Rifle it is.

[o Envy o]

Needler duh.

[Ace1007]

I think it should b either Carb and pistol, BR and pistol, or just the AR itself. its stupid to have a secondary weapon unless is a pistol because u would have to much power

:pwned:

[TuRk 15]

I think either carb and pistol second, br and pistol second, or ar itself cuz it rapes and i **** with it. Those seem like the most balanced choices out there. The smg doesnt seem like an appropriate secondary cuz of the power and ammo count it has. And if the ar is second to the br i dont think any1 would use it but its still a good idea and id use it

[Ace1007]

turk is a very smart guy. i agree with him totally

:pwned:

[colincancer814]

i think either just assault rifle or AR with battle rifle secondary. with forge you can place weapons wherever so starting weapon doesnt matter as much

[Assas1nzero]

BR and Ar will work for TS. As for FFA I'm not sure about that yet.

[TheLahja]

Br start and ar secondary, this way getting a carbine will be a some what advantage over a br but with its ammo not to crazy. having an ar secondary gives you an option for close range other then just beatdown since we dont know of any bxr, bxb glitches

[o_pitchblak_o]

i think AR and secondary pistol will be a great start...........will the ability to forge weapon balances on maps it gives it a whole new outlook than wat halo 2 had to offer which involved alot long range combat and headshots.....with AR starts i think it will bring back everybody to page 1 and work back up

[MuRpHeE]

Idk from the beta id say the AR would be suitable starting weapon it seemed as if it will serve as a major weapon in combat as the BR did with Halo 2. but if not BRs FtFw.

[Gallagher06]

i think AR and secondary pistol will be a great start...........will the ability to forge weapon balances on maps it gives it a whole new outlook than wat halo 2 had to offer which involved alot long range combat and headshots.....with AR starts i think it will bring back everybody to page 1 and work back up
i dont think so, i mean its a good idea but i doubt MLG will switch from the BR start, AR secondary sounds more believeable but i still think thats too much fire power

[TuRk 15]

I still believe it should be AR start but BR and pistol could work. Also Br and ar could work plus maybe carb too.

[DozerX2]

The thing you have to remember though, is the difference between the weapons. One dude said before that every weapon could beat the BR in its element. Depending on your skill, that was true, though, with the Carbine, in the beta, it was highly impossible to win with anything in their element, I mean you could kill a dude with Laser and with rockets, as long as you could judge their shooting. The Carbine was my weapon of choice, because it was the strongest, and easiest to use, and that's not what I wanted, I want something that takes skill such as the BR, but in the Beta's case, the BR was much weaker than the Carbine, even when you get all headshots. I guess it will just depend on how Bungie took criticism, and if they understand that this game needs to have a Halo 1esque type feel, rather than a ****ty Halo 2 feel.

[Reanimated]

AR and BR secondary

[Biggindude]

I'll decide after a few weeks with the game.

[chipokitty]

I think if we are given a BR start or the highly unlikely AR only start, then the carbine will be too good of a weapon. During my time with the beta almost noone out bred a decent carbine, and thats because well the carbine is just better in H3, or at least in the beta.

Starting with a BR would make it so setups are focused around carbine spawns as well as power weapons, which seems odd since the carbine ought to be a normally used weapon

Also, anyone that posted in this thread without putting some decent time into the beta is a fool, who is wasting space and possibly causing senseless arguements.

I suppose we shall see what people can do with forge, as well as how the weapons turn out in the real game... really it doesn't matter much to me, because it is still going to be Halo 3.

[AguaMoose]

I think the Needler is the most ovbious choice of a starting weapon

Hopefully it will be

[Escapism]

I think if we are given a BR start or the highly unlikely AR only start, then the carbine will be too good of a weapon. During my time with the beta almost noone out bred a decent carbine, and thats because well the carbine is just better in H3, or at least in the beta.

Starting with a BR would make it so setups are focused around carbine spawns as well as power weapons, which seems odd since the carbine ought to be a normally used weapon

Also, anyone that posted in this thread without putting some decent time into the beta is a fool, who is wasting space and possibly causing senseless arguements.

I suppose we shall see what people can do with forge, as well as how the weapons turn out in the real game... really it doesn't matter much to me, because it is still going to be Halo 3.
I can't give a source but I'm pretty sure in one of there updates they said the nerfed the carbine after the beta because it was so dominate.

[chipokitty]

I can't give a source but I'm pretty sure in one of there updates they said the nerfed the carbine after the beta because it was so dominate.

Hm, that may change things. But it really depends. Ugh, I hope they didn't nerf it because it wasn't as dominate as the br or pistol (I assume you can guess which Halo for each :\)

Also if the carbine becomes as inaccurate as the br at a range, then sniping will be absolute domination, since past mid range you can almost always zoom on people. I know sniping is harder in Halo3, but from my experience on the beta if you didn't have a sniper to counter their sniper you better hope they are bad, or just get close as hell to them.

[Sulfuric___mlg_]

Bungie nerfed the Carbine. They DID say it in one of their updates, I have no source but you can check around Bungie.net if you really feel the need.

On topic:
Br start with AR secondary, that way you can kill people mid-longe range with the BR, and then turn the corner and whip out your AR to close range someone. Or, depending on the carbine damage, Carbine + AR secondary.
Either way, keep the AR, just because it is a good weapon, IMO, and it shouldn't go completely unused(who would actually pick up an AR on the map?)

[chipokitty]

Bungie nerfed the Carbine. They DID say it in one of their updates, I have no source but you can check around Bungie.net if you really feel the need.

On topic:
Br start with AR secondary, that way you can kill people mid-longe range with the BR, and then turn the corner and whip out your AR to close range someone. Or, depending on the carbine damage, Carbine + AR secondary.
Either way, keep the AR, just because it is a good weapon, IMO, and it shouldn't go completely unused(who would actually pick up an AR on the map?)

When I was playing in the beta, the BR was very ineffective at long range. We may be judging distance differently, but from what I saw, outside of red reticle range, the BR took too long to kill at long range. And the red reticle range seemed too short.

Ugh, I really don't feel like sifting through all the pointless Halo 3 info at bungie to find that one thing. Anyone want to do it for me? :]

[Ligster]

I am almost positive that it will be BR/AR.

The AR just seemed to have the right size clip so that you could kill people at short to mid range if used right.

I can't even say how many times I killed people in the beta with some of the last bullets in my clip. It just seemed like that was made to be a starting weapon. The BR would be NEEDED to counteract sniping.

[Pulser]

Either BR or AR + Pistol. I would prefer BR.

[RebRaG]

I just hope we can decide on MLG settings fast (even if they are somewhat makeshift) so that we can start early and practice what might be similar to tournament settings.

The most likely guess for a starting weapon is BR/AR secondary, Car/AR secondary, or BR only.

[Beezle212]

Bungie nerfed the Carbine. They DID say it in one of their updates, I have no source but you can check around Bungie.net if you really feel the need.

On topic:
Br start with AR secondary, that way you can kill people mid-longe range with the BR, and then turn the corner and whip out your AR to close range someone. Or, depending on the carbine damage, Carbine + AR secondary.
Either way, keep the AR, just because it is a good weapon, IMO, and it shouldn't go completely unused(who would actually pick up an AR on the map?)

They brought it more in line with the BR so that one wasn't a glaringly better choice over the other they said. I don't think they made very many changes to the BR from beta, however. won't know for sure until next week obviously.

[RebRaG]

They brought it more in line with the BR so that one wasn't a glaringly better choice over the other they said. I don't think they made very many changes to the BR from beta, however. won't know for sure until next week obviously.My guess is that they made the shots a little more clustered than in the beta, in the beta, you had to get lucky to 4 shot someone since the bullets were so spread out, it made it too much of a spray n pray, which halo is not.

[Sentry]

My question is, do you know how it's going to sound at an MLG event with 500 people blasting carbine non-stop? I realize this may sound like a rediculous basis for picking a starting weapon, but c'mon. :)

[Razor_1138]

I say start off with good ole AR and pistol. AR can ****.




Green Thumb FTW

[Kree]

pistol

/thread

[xReject]

pistol

/thread
that or the br

[RetroBlackTeen]

Well AR> Pistol
But AR with no scope? How will we shot across the map?

[Gallagher06]

Well AR> Pistol
But AR with no scope? How will we shot across the map?
exactly i doubt MLG will start us off with a gun with no scope, it worked good in H2 ill doubt they'll change the starting weapon unless to the carbine

[Reanimated]

pistol

/thread

thats real logical, im sure you'll love being sniped when you start with a mid/low range weapon

[HL_zL1]

In the beta, I preferred the Carbine. However I'm wondering if Bungie nerfed it a bit or toned it down. Either way I think the BR will still be the best starting weapon overall even with the reduced accuracy. Maybe if there is Covie TS, then the Carbine will be solid.

[WMDistraction]

In the beta, I preferred the Carbine. However I'm wondering if Bungie nerfed it a bit or toned it down. Either way I think the BR will still be the best starting weapon overall even with the reduced accuracy. Maybe if there is Covie TS, then the Carbine will be solid.
They said they did. There was a really big gap between the carbine and the BR in the Beta. What they did and by how much we'll figure out on H3's release.

[-NaStY-]

Obviously primary will be carbine or BR, depending on the carbine's strength, noise, and ease of use. If it's too loud, etc. then BR.

However for secondary, I want to suggest something radical. Bear with me here, I really think this could and should work.

Now, most of us here want to add a short/medium range non-headshot, non dual-wieldable weapon as secondary, namely the AR. But consider this: if you're going to give players a weapon that's not dealing headshots, why make it a spray like weapon when you could use the more precise, skillful...


Sentinel Beam!

If this thing is powered at all correctly, then it has everything you want in a secondary and more. It's not dual-wieldable so it doesn't create an imbalance when somebody spawns close to another player who just killed someone and is now dualing. It's a good up close to medium range weapon, and best of all, it's far more precise in its aim than the AR. It hits at a single point instead of spreading the bullets, and it requires fully constant aiming combined with a good manipulation of the overheating problem. Dropping behind cover right before you overheat, etc.

I honestly think it would be the best, most skillful option available.

[Hitzel_89]

Obviously primary will be carbine or BR, depending on the carbine's strength, noise, and ease of use. If it's too loud, etc. then BR.

However for secondary, I want to suggest something radical. Bear with me here, I really think this could and should work.

Now, most of us here want to add a short/medium range non-headshot, non dual-wieldable weapon as secondary, namely the AR. But consider this: if you're going to give players a weapon that's not dealing headshots, why make it a spray like weapon when you could use the more precise, skillful...


Sentinel Beam!

If this thing is powered at all correctly, then it has everything you want in a secondary and more. It's not dual-wieldable so it doesn't create an imbalance when somebody spawns close to another player who just killed someone and is now dualing. It's a good up close to medium range weapon, and best of all, it's far more precise in its aim than the AR. It hits at a single point instead of spreading the bullets, and it requires fully constant aiming combined with a good manipulation of the overheating problem. Dropping behind cover right before you overheat, etc.

I honestly think it would be the best, most skillful option available.That's actually a really good idea. The lightning gun from Quake 4 is more or less the sentinal beam, and there's a suprisingly high skill gap between players when using that gun because it requires smooth aim.

Of course, if the sentinal beam does too much or too little damage, it won't work out well. Another concern I have is the fact that it may be too large. I wouldn't want something huge hanging off my back when I spawn.

[Assas1nzero]

That would be great ,but I think the sentiel beam is too weak,

[Hitzel_89]

That would be great ,but I think the sentiel beam is too weak,We dunno if Bungie made it useful in Halo 3. Don't think Halo 2! =P

[-NaStY-]

That's actually a really good idea. The lightning gun from Quake 4 is more or less the sentinal beam, and there's a suprisingly high skill gap between players when using that gun because it requires smooth aim.

Of course, if the sentinal beam does too much or too little damage, it won't work out well. Another concern I have is the fact that it may be too large. I wouldn't want something huge hanging off my back when I spawn.

Yeah that could be a problem.

One thing I've been thinking about, though, is the possibility that we could change a player's health and shields independently. If we could do this, then it would be cool to leave shields normal but increase health a lot. As long as Halo 3 has toned down the "if you're facing backwards you're impossible to headshot" thing, then it would have no effect on how many shots a BR takes to kill. On the flip side, you could use some non-headshotting weapons that would otherwise be to powerful, because they have to chew through all that extra health that a headshot negates. This way, if it turns out the sentinel beam is too strong, its still usable. We might also consider the positive effects extra health (not shields) could have for weapons like the brute shot. Finally, it would be interesting because most weapons would be hard to kill somebody with in 1 hit, so you'd have to finish a lot of your kills with headshots. This means a lot more skillful weapon switches => shot to the dome. A shotgun battle, for instance, would be much more intense if you had to headshot the opponent afterwards with your BR. No more turning the corner and being instantly dead, and yet a shotgun would still be a major advantage close range because melee combat is much slower without button glitches - a shotgun shot + br will still be faster than most other close range options.

Just thinkin. Thanks for the pm btw Hitzel, those levels look awesome, especially the pit.

[RebRaG]

Obviously primary will be carbine or BR, depending on the carbine's strength, noise, and ease of use. If it's too loud, etc. then BR.

However for secondary, I want to suggest something radical. Bear with me here, I really think this could and should work.

Now, most of us here want to add a short/medium range non-headshot, non dual-wieldable weapon as secondary, namely the AR. But consider this: if you're going to give players a weapon that's not dealing headshots, why make it a spray like weapon when you could use the more precise, skillful...


Sentinel Beam!

If this thing is powered at all correctly, then it has everything you want in a secondary and more. It's not dual-wieldable so it doesn't create an imbalance when somebody spawns close to another player who just killed someone and is now dualing. It's a good up close to medium range weapon, and best of all, it's far more precise in its aim than the AR. It hits at a single point instead of spreading the bullets, and it requires fully constant aiming combined with a good manipulation of the overheating problem. Dropping behind cover right before you overheat, etc.

I honestly think it would be the best, most skillful option available.wall shooting wouldn't work, and I also don't think it'd be that gread because say you get shot from an unknown area, you can easily just go under cover and its hard for your teammates to finish the kill.

Actually, now that I think about it, for teams, having a secondary isn't really competitive, it takes away from teamwork a little without the scope, for teams, I think they should have BR/Car start no secondary.

However, saying no secondary could also take a little more skilll in theory, maybe for a free for all they could still have AR/whatever for secondary.

[-NaStY-]

wall shooting wouldn't work, and I also don't think it'd be that gread because say you get shot from an unknown area, you can easily just go under cover and its hard for your teammates to finish the kill.

Er..wha?

[chipokitty]

Er..wha?

I am guessing he means with a sentinel beam you couldn't hide your head in a wall while still being able to shoot...? Thats the only thing that made since to me...

[RebRaG]

Er..wha?i tried to say that its harder to use teamwork with any non-scoped weapon

[chipokitty]

i tried to say that its harder to use teamwork with any non-scoped weapon

Ok... so change wall to team then? Edit?

[-NaStY-]

wall shooting wouldn't work, and I also don't think it'd be that gread because say you get shot from an unknown area, you can easily just go under cover and its hard for your teammates to finish the kill.

I just don't get that part.

I'm sure there's a decent argument behind secondaries being less skillful, I was just wondering what the quarrel was with sentinel beam if you had to have a secondary.

[Reanimated]

Actually, now that I think about it, for teams, having a secondary isn't really competitive, it takes away from teamwork a little without the scope, for teams, I think they should have BR/Car start no secondary.

It is just as competative with a secondary or without one. You still have a BR/Carbine, and you have a AR for close range, Team shooting will be exactally the same.

[Hitzel_89]

Yeah that could be a problem.

One thing I've been thinking about, though, is the possibility that we could change a player's health and shields independently. If we could do this, then it would be cool to leave shields normal but increase health a lot. As long as Halo 3 has toned down the "if you're facing backwards you're impossible to headshot" thing, then it would have no effect on how many shots a BR takes to kill. On the flip side, you could use some non-headshotting weapons that would otherwise be to powerful, because they have to chew through all that extra health that a headshot negates. This way, if it turns out the sentinel beam is too strong, its still usable. We might also consider the positive effects extra health (not shields) could have for weapons like the brute shot. Finally, it would be interesting because most weapons would be hard to kill somebody with in 1 hit, so you'd have to finish a lot of your kills with headshots. This means a lot more skillful weapon switches => shot to the dome. A shotgun battle, for instance, would be much more intense if you had to headshot the opponent afterwards with your BR. No more turning the corner and being instantly dead, and yet a shotgun would still be a major advantage close range because melee combat is much slower without button glitches - a shotgun shot + br will still be faster than most other close range options.

Just thinkin. Thanks for the pm btw Hitzel, those levels look awesome, especially the pit.I don't know what to think of changing the health around. I guess we'll have to see how the weapons are designed. It'll weaken grenades and melees, though.

And your welcome for the PM. I'm also psyched for The Pit. =)

[-NaStY-]

I don't know what to think of changing the health around. I guess we'll have to see how the weapons are designed. It'll weaken grenades and melees, though.

And your welcome for the PM. I'm also psyched for The Pit. =)

True.. well I guess grenades and melees would just be added to the list of things with which you'd have switch and headshot after hitting.

[Bullet_Magnet360]

Bfir3, who has the game early posted a thread about his experience so far, he said the BR has been changed. Fires faster than in the beta, 4 shot kill, and when face to face with a carbine outguns the carbine but your left oneshot. Basically final version H3 BR is better than carbine. So I guess we are gunna see more BR starts.

[ALIENwolve]

Wouldn't a slightly inferior weapon be a better start? It's only a tiny amount and it's designed to focus on the three attacks of the game, not just shooting.

[chipokitty]

Bfir3, who has the game early posted a thread about his experience so far, he said the BR has been changed. Fires faster than in the beta, 4 shot kill, and when face to face with a carbine outguns the carbine but your left oneshot. Basically final version H3 BR is better than carbine. So I guess we are gunna see more BR starts.

No offense, but I am waiting to judge the weapons myself. Because I knew people in the beta that thought they did better with the BR, and therefore presumed it was better, and one of these people is a good friend of mine with easily over 10k games logged in H2. But, if BR is better than yeah probably will be BR start... We shall see, only like an hour and 5 days now.

[Bullet_Magnet360]

Wouldn't a slightly inferior weapon be a better start? It's only a tiny amount and it's designed to focus on the three attacks of the game, not just shooting.
He also said the carbine only has 18 bullets in clip, so i doubt it will be starting weapon.

[WiZaNe]

5 shot PISTOL!!?:???:

[ZoA_ViLLAiN]

i would like br on some maps Ar on some maps its a toss up

[Ghemy]

i would like br on some maps Ar on some maps its a toss up
Competitively, the AR really has no chance of being the starting weapon. Maybe secondary.

[deadmantouch]

I think it would be cool if you could pick a secondary DW weapon. Plasma pistol, smg, magnum, spiker, etc...
That or maybe choose your starting nades.

Hell, you should be able to choose any non-uber gun as a starting weapon. that would add some spice.