MLG v3 Discussion Thread

[Killa KC]

Use this thread to discuss anything about v3. I'd like to keep the feedback thread to only formatted posts, so everyone can use this thread to talk about anything they would like to about v3.

Construct was updated around 5:30pm to fix a 30 second respawning Carbine. Please redownload Cstruct v3 if you downloaded it before 5:30pm.

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Download the gametypes here:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=MLG%20Gametypes

All changes can be found here:
http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/178925

First 12 files are v2 for the Online Tournament that is currently using v2 settings. Second 12 is v3.

Since the friends list is most likely full, an easy way to download them without going to bungie.net is by sending a private chat to 'MLG Gametypes', then selecting "View Profile" and then "File Share."

[iTz FrEnZy]

sweet, i cant wait to play them

[SMG_Go_Blue]

So wait, when are they available for download?

EDIT - I see now. I've only played the Pit and it's amazing.

[T3st1fy]

Omg I have been waiting for these all day =] yaaaay.

[whiteballa14]

you edited the post.. thanks!

[BLUEFIR3]

<3 kc.. u never added me on your main account btw :( :(

[Killa KC]

<3 kc.. u never added me on your main account btw :( :(

Try making room first. :p

[Plagued]

On Narrows there is an odd number of spawns, 67 total. The missing spawn point is on Blue Man Cannon, it only has 1 in front of the Man Cannon while Red Side has 2.

[regicid3]

Have you always been "Competitive Game Design Engineer"?

I love Iso, by the way.

[Killa KC]

On Narrows there is an odd number of spawns, 67 total. The missing spawn point is on Blue Man Cannon, it only has 1 in front of the Man Cannon while Red Side has 2.

Thank you! It'll be left like that for v3 since that really won't impact the game at all, but it'll be fixed for v4. Thanks for paying attention to the details.

[That-DAM-n00b]

I can't look at them right now, but did you make any significant changes from the beta phase?

Also did you put 4 starting points for attackers and defenders for each gametype played on that map? I'm not sure if you saw that thread eli started about the spawn issues on pit in v2, but I went and looked at it myself and confirmed what he was talking about. Slayer on that map red team was missing a starting point, and every other game type there was only one starting point for each team.

[Plagued]

Thank you! It'll be left like that for v3 since that really won't impact the game at all, but it'll be fixed for v4. Thanks for paying attention to the details.

Not a problem. I was just looking through all the maps and noticed it when trying to find the spawn areas. If I find any other problems i'll tell you. :)

[Killa KC]

I can't look at them right now, but did you make any significant changes from the beta phase?

Also did you put 4 starting points for attackers and defenders for each gametype played on that map? I'm not sure if you saw that thread eli started about the spawn issues on pit in v2, but I went and looked at it myself and confirmed what he was talking about. Slayer on that map red team was missing a starting point, and every other game type there was only one starting point for each team.

Unfortunately flag carriers no longer have zero gravity and cannot jump from 1 side of the map to the other. :(

And Hornets were removed from Cstruct. :(

4 starting points for each team is used on every map now except Iso. By doing this, we can have teammates spawn in specific spots (such as platform on Pit) in the beginning of the match without actually having a spawn there. Players will spawn there in the beginning and never again. If we used 1 starting spawn and then 3 normal spawns, people will spawn there the entire game and that would be awful. His reasoning for not having them was so that he can play FFAs on the MLG maps. Solution: Create your own version with different starting spawns to use for FFAs.

[AguaMoose]

Unfortunately flag carriers no longer have zero gravity and cannot jump from 1 side of the map to the other. :(

And Hornets were removed from Cstruct. :(

Damn, was lookin forward to the Hornets

Is the Carbine at Missile Pod spawn on Construct meant to be at 30 secs respawn and the rest 90 secs ?

[Killa KC]

Damn, was lookin forward to the Hornets

Is the Carbine at Missile Pod spawn on Construct meant to be at 30 secs respawn and the rest 90 secs ?

HUGE find. Thank you. That has now been fixed and reposted. Everyone should redownload that map to fix that issue.

Thanks.

[mickey22]

HUGE find. Thank you. That has now been fixed and reposted. Everyone should redownload that map to fix that issue.

Thanks.

Killa i can never tell if your serious lol

[blueterror]

Im wondering what the reasoning is behind camo being removed from the pit?

:(

[Suit and Tie]

Some of the power weapons are off-center, and in most cases it's purely aesthetic but in the case of The Pit, the rockets are closer to one base than the other.

[Killa KC]

Im wondering what the reasoning is behind camo being removed from the pit?

:(

1) Camo and Rockets being next to each other was way too powerful
2) Nothing should ever be fought over in a tiny hallway that leads to grenade wars
3) There is no need to go through that hallway now unless to sneak to the other side of the map. Fighting is now more concentrated near the bridge where it is more open and allows for team shooting.

Some of the power weapons are off-center, and in most cases it's purely aesthetic but in the case of The Pit, the rockets are closer to one base than the other.

No one said anything after v2 and they haven't been touched. It might be because of the way they land and bounce. I'll look more into it for v4. Thanks.

[Kilo15]

v3 settings = MORE COMPETITIVE.....no invis on pit....smaller hills in king of the hill.....rockets and snipe on construct....also it add more cover in iso....( portals in base )

[That-DAM-n00b]

Unfortunately flag carriers no longer have zero gravity and cannot jump from 1 side of the map to the other. :(

And Hornets were removed from Cstruct. :(


darn, what about the 200 speed 50 gravity laser ffa on sandtrap?

[Killa KC]

darn, what about the 200 speed 50 gravity laser ffa on sandtrap?

Shhhhhh..... don't ruin the FFA announcement!

[Tommy_Trash]

Maps are amazing. Iso is a less horrible now with the teles. Construct is also much better with the rockets on extension and the snipe below default sword.

One thing I noticed though, it has nothing to do with gameplay but several of the weapons are off center and kind of look thrown on to the map. For example the BR spawn bottom yellow on Guardian. I wasn't sure if that spawn was intentional or not.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Shhhhhh..... don't ruin the FFA announcement!


ohhhh :-X

I didn't mean to mention the MLG imma chargin mah lazer tag ffa

[SQEEkS07]

Construct Hill will now definatly be a favorite I.M.O

[Prank1_Owns]

darn, what about the 200 speed 50 gravity laser ffa on sandtrap?

That would be like Quake. Could actually be really fun.

[That-DAM-n00b]

That would be like Quake. Could actually be really fun.

It actually is a really fun gametype.

But lets stay on topic this KC guy is really running away with this thread.

[MumboJumbo]

love the V3 settings nothing changed disappoints me like V2 did everything is great

[Lunten]

Looks Great!

Is there any chance that CTF Construct will be added in V4?

[regicid3]

Killa, have you guys been thinking of ways to implement equipment? At all? Or are you guys done with it? You dropped and it's not coming.

Is there hope?

[ZRDragoon]

They should definitely have a power drainer somewhere on like a 3 minute timer to break set-ups and such. I think it could be a good addition to maybe guardian or construct (throw it in a lift room).

[SQEEkS07]

Not alot people like equipment.

[ShakaDemus]

Thank you! It'll be left like that for v3 since that really won't impact the game at all, but it'll be fixed for v4. Thanks for paying attention to the details.

woudnt that affect if the flag carrier is going under mauler or snipe and you are blue team?

[SQEEkS07]

Not alot people like equipment.And it doesnt show much skill jsut shows if you have good timing .

[Aurium Animus]

Yes but equipment can be a game changing factor that must be controlled.

It has it's ups and downs.

[Killa KC]

woudnt that affect if the flag carrier is going under mauler or snipe and you are blue team?

Not really. There is still a spawn point there. 2 people never spawn next to each other at the same moment, so it really won't have any effect. If there was 1 spawn point on 1 side and 0 spawn point on the other, that would effect gameplay tremendously and be worth fixing.

As for equipment.... most equipment in my mind is a joke (bubble shield, power regen, etc). That being said, I do like the deployable cover and power drainer. I have a pretty long list written up of things that I will be testing for v4, and that happens to be on it. Whether it will ever be implemented... time will tell.

[Jerseyelite]

As for equipment.... most equipment in my mind is a joke (bubble shield, power regen, etc). That being said, I do like the deployable cover and power drainer. I have a pretty long list written up of things that I will be testing for v4, and that happens to be on it. Whether it will ever be implemented... time will tell.

I could definitely envision the PD and DC being treated as a power weapons with the proper placement and extended respawn times. KC, what about the portable gravity lift on symmetrical maps like the Pit and Iso? I don't see the harm in having one available at each base with a 3:00 respawn. They could definitely add a lot to the gameplay from a tactical standpoint.

Despite the addition of plasma pistols ,which was a welcome change IMO, the maps overall still seem pretty barren as far as weapon selection goes. I know you guys are very weary about adding randoms elements to competitive play but I still wouldn't mind seeing the sword make a return and am all for the inclusion of additional weapons such as the Plasma Rifle and Splaser. Love the teleporter placement in Iso btw.

[That-DAM-n00b]

I was just thinking deployable cover is probably one of the most competitive equipments. Also it may sound silly, but bear with me. flare. Think about it, with no radar a well placed flare could blind the guys trying to shoot the ball carrier ect, and you could still see them, it really is IMO the most viable equipment option.

[I Nols l]

I like the new settings so far and think its a good improvement on V2.

As for equipment i think that it shouldn't be in, if any would be in the deployable cover is the only one that would be ok at all. But i would rather not have any at all.

[Jerseyelite]

I was just thinking deployable cover is probably one of the most competitive equipments. Also it may sound silly, but bear with me. flare. Think about it, with no radar a well placed flare could blind the guys trying to shoot the ball carrier ect, and you could still see them, it really is IMO the most viable equipment option.

I was actually contemplating bringing up the Flare as a possibility as well but there seems to be an overwhelming disdain for the thing (from both the casual and competitive community) for whatever reason. IMO the risk/reward for this item in particular is perfect as it's easy to destroy and hampers the player deploying it to a certain degree. It's good to know at least that equipment hasn't been ruled out for V4.

[That-DAM-n00b]

It only hampers the player deploying it if you throw it near yourself, if you aim up and arc it away from you it only affects those near it.

[Jerseyelite]

It only hampers the player deploying it if you throw it near yourself, if you aim up and arc it away from you it only affects those near it.

Yes I know. The level of visual distortion to the one deploying it definitely depends on where and how it's being utilized as it pertains to the map being played. Plus taking the time to aim upwards in an effort to increase the arc of your throw can potentially leave that player vulnerable to attack which adds a significant element of risk (which can also be applied to the PD) that IMV makes it perfectly acceptable for competitive play.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Deployable cover, the only thing that would give it too much of an advantage, that if it is well placed where the base can't be shot or naded, it can't be destroyed, but with direct plasma fire, or high explosives, because the base is it's only weak point.

[[Schism]]

construct's 1st hill won't work on lan

[SnaKKer]

They all look good, but Construct looks the best out of all of them. Those weapons are in excellent places to force players to move around the map and not just camp top pink. I think these are definitely a big improvement over v2 and we are getting closer to finding settings that can create the best competition possible. Big thanks to everyone who worked on these.

Edit: The only things I disagree with are the positions of sniper and mauler on Guardian. Putting a power weapon on a power position just leave no incentive for a team to leave the snipe tower and sets up a gridlock like on Lockout. The weapon locations on Construct make a ton of sense, so I don't know why that same logic wasn't applied to Guardian.

[RMT]

have 1 power drainer on the map , or 1 kind of powerful equipment at all would be fine , it could be treated as a power weapon and would different in MM form that in MM there is usually multiple pieces of equipment lying around and they are stuff like regen and bubble shield. never really thought about the DC but it would definately be interesting.

[iTz FrEnZy]

The only thing I do not like is the hill under sword spawn in Construct. Is there a reason why you decided to take it out from under center and put it under sword spawn?

[kid_tipper]

I'd really like to see a power drain on gaurdian with a long respawn time as a means to break set-ups. I don't really think it's nessacary on any other map though. Also the ocssianal depolyal cover/grav lift can't hurt:roll:

I really love all the changes you've made though, and look fowards to being able to play on them. Construct especially is much better now. Nice work.

One last thing... MLG needs moar spartans lazers. foreal.

[LeE]

The starting hill on construct seems iffy to me, It seems like people always spawn above you and can drop down easily, you cant really set up on it. Hopefully it is just like that in random 4s.

[kair0]

Why didnt we move forward in competitive gaming and use 110/100/90? The current maps are good but they could be amazing with 110/100/90 different weapon set and less bland because of the over powering.

110/110/90 < 110/100/90

Equipment can be used.

Keep up the hard work.

[Killa KC]

The starting hill on construct seems iffy to me, It seems like people always spawn above you and can drop down easily, you cant really set up on it. Hopefully it is just like that in random 4s.

1 person in the glass room in front of sword room is the key to setting up. They can shoot across to both open/closed street if anyone tries to shoot down and it will prevent people from dropping down on you.

[-Ender-]

It's glad to know I'm not the only one who knows deployable cover exists. lol

[ZRDragoon]

Why didnt we move forward in competitive gaming and use 110/100/90? The current maps are good but they could be amazing with 110/100/90 different weapon set and less bland because of the over powering.

110/110/90 < 110/100/90

Equipment can be used.

Keep up the hard work.

Well, if Bungie fixes the BR spread, it's probably gonna change back to that ( and hopefully the shotgun will be back). You're talking about changing Damage Resistence back to normal right?

[Angelos]

Hey just fyi im not sure if others are having this problem but on ctf narrows for some reason red team had basically instant flag returns while it took longer for blue team.

[Ryot]

v3 is pretty ballin', it fixed quite a few things from v2 (which was already quite good). Definitely look into equipment for v4, IMO power drainer and deployable cover are worth a look. I remember playing an unofficial CTF Construct of yours and it was quite good. Could it be a possibility for v4?

Kudos on v3, playtesting seems to have payed off well.

[bosoxdanc]

I noticed how some gametypes were for LAN and some were for Online.
What's the difference here?

Oh yeah, and which should you use for practicing?

[SQEEkS07]

I think deployablecover would be good , but one thing people should think about is wouldn't you hate it if you're playing KOTH on Isolation and someone drops a deployable cover and they end up getting a bunch of uncontested seconds . I don't know about you guys , but It'd be really frustrating I.M.O . Maybe in TS it would be alright , but not anything with time to win .

[phlsphr]

I have a few things I'd like to say about the current MLG settings for Halo 3. To back up what I say, I will first demonstrate examples of what a good competitive game's characteristics should be.

The "Go-To" weapon:
-Halo:CE used the pistol, which became an instant favorite with most higher level players. It is specifically good because it is so useful. It's strength favors those with the eye-hand coordination to perform three-shot kills consistently. In Halo 2, the best replacements for the pistol was either the Battle Rifle or the Carbine. In Halo 3, again, the best replacements are the Battle Rifle and/or the Carbine. These weapons are necessary staples for all players to have.

The Heavy weapon (Mid-range):
-The rocket launcher falls into this category. During team or individual play, it ensures or suggests to players aware of their surroundings to not get so close to another player if he or she does not have this weapon, as third player may have this weapon and will get a quick two kills out of one shot, maximizing time efficiency to ammo/kill ratio with the weapon. Skilled players will be required to know the geometrics of the environment in order to maximize his or her own kill/ammo ratio with this weapon, the overall benefit going to time efficiency for the score received with the ammo. A skilled player may even be able to use this weapon short range (the ability to be cognizant of his or her surroundings enough to shoot a local surface that is at an angle that will inflict maximum damage to the opponent and the least to him or her) or long range (skill required to be able to lead an opponent).

The Heavey weapon (Short-range):
-The shotgun is the optimum choice for this weapon. It should be the equivalent of what the rocket launcher is at mid-range and the sniper rifle is at long range. I personally disagree with current MLG settings removing this weapon from the map and replacing it with maulers. To back this up, I use Halo:CE. It worked in Halo:CE, there should be no reason why it can not work now. The shotgun in Halo:CE was even more powerful than the one used now. The act of replacing this with the mauler has forced players to choose between the power of the original shotgun and the ability to throw accurate grenades, which is a skill I believe is being neglected by current settings. If an opponent has a shotgun, a skilled player should know how to accurately throw grenades in order to diminish the power of the player holding the shotgun.

The Heavy weapon (Long-range):
-The sniper rifle is the tried and true optimum choice for long range combat. A skilled player may also be able to use this weapon for mid or even close range.

The "Pawns":
-The grenades work as the "pawns" of the game. As in chess, grenades can be used to force opponents into undesired situations if a player is skilled enough to accurately throw them to where they will do this. The opponent then must react as quickly as possible while considering possible escape routes that will not either directly kill them via a secondary grenade or by line of sight of the particular weapon that the player is wielding. The grenades, along with the "go-to" weapon, are the meat of a great game.

The objectives:
-Usually power-ups, but can also be any of the heavy weapons, these are what create the true dynamics of the competitive game. Each player must be cognizant of the location and the situation concerning these at any given time. The player(s) with this awareness will be able to then take advantage of this knowledge and what foresight he or she has in order to shape the immediate future in the game. Some may even argue that the equipment in Halo 3 could be good examples of objectives, but I am inclined to agree with current settings on this matter: the simpler the better.

In conclusion, I am disappointed in the current settings for MLG V.3. If this is to as professional as possible, then all these things must be considered, and from what I have seen so far, this is not the case. Grenades skill (geometric understanding of the map in order to place grenades to maximize a player's position while diminishing an opponent's) seem to be an afterthought. The shotgun, as I've mentioned before, has been removed and replaced with an inferior weapon, diminishing the role of close combat fighting and the dynamics concerning it. The neglect of symmetry and perfect balance between even so much as spawn points is disturbing: even though it may not seem like a big deal, it does have an impact on the game, whether it can be immediately foreseeable/distinguishable by us or not. Even having a weapon *slightly* off in placement, leaving it closer to one team than the other, can mean the difference between one point in a game, and I'm sure we've all had our fair share of 49-50 games. This is to be professional gaming, and I would hope that it is given the attention as a professional business would give it.

very respectfully,
me

[AguaMoose]

Wheres Neutral Bomb ?

[The OZ]

Just a thought. Has the increased player movement lead to laggier shots or unregistered hits?. Maybe increased speed wasn't the way to go. :camo:

[SQEEkS07]

Neither , but you've always had to lead youre shots cuz of the poopy br spread.

[T3st1fy]

Teehee you said poopy

But yeah the v3 junk owns things... so yeah... its cool.

[Suit and Tie]

They all look good, but Construct looks the best out of all of them. Those weapons are in excellent places to force players to move around the map and not just camp top pink. I think these are definitely a big improvement over v2 and we are getting closer to finding settings that can create the best competition possible. Big thanks to everyone who worked on these.

Edit: The only things I disagree with are the positions of sniper and mauler on Guardian. Putting a power weapon on a power position just leave no incentive for a team to leave the snipe tower and sets up a gridlock like on Lockout. The weapon locations on Construct make a ton of sense, so I don't know why that same logic wasn't applied to Guardian.
IMO Snipe tower on Lockout is much less desirable than BR tower because of the limited space to move around and the chance to catch nades. For this reason Snipe tower is even less of a power position on Guardian. Their incentive to move across is Camo and possibly grabbing Mauler on the way. Camo is a huge asset in Halo 3 and can easily break setups.

[AlphaSparda]

I think the mauler placement is really bad on Guardian.

The team that spawns elbow has better access to sniper, and equal access to mauler and camo.

The team that spawns bottom blue has only equal access to mauler and camo.

There needs to be something closer to BR tower in order for bottom blue spawn to be equal to elbow spawn.

Plasma pistol in green room (original shotgun spawn) perhaps?

[AlphaSparda]

Those weapons are in excellent places to force players to move around the map and not just camp top pink.

What's top pink on Construct? I'm not quite sure,... glass room? sword spawn?

[Suit and Tie]

I think the mauler placement is really bad on Guardian.

The team that spawns elbow has better access to sniper, and equal access to mauler and camo.

The team that spawns bottom blue has only equal access to mauler and camo.

There needs to be something closer to BR tower in order for bottom blue spawn to be equal to elbow spawn.

Plasma pistol in green room (original shotgun spawn) perhaps?
Team spawning bottom blue can lift over to Snipe just like the other team can lift over to Camo.

[DeFeRenCe]

v3 are very good but, on Pit King, hill is annoying upside-down. I also think the shotgun should come back, it's one of the most consistent weapons.

[ZRDragoon]

I definitely think the shotgun should come back. The Mauler isn't nearly as useful, and I don't really see people using it too often. A shotty user should be feared at close range. Mauler just isn't as devastating as a shotty.

If 110% damage wasn't on, I think the brute shot could've been a great competitive weapon, IMO. On MLG V1, it was a great support weapon if used correctly and if a team is really close to eachother, it can be devastating. I dunno, though.

[SnaKKer]

What's top pink on Construct? I'm not quite sure,... glass room? sword spawn?

I call it top pink cauz the lifts are pink. It's glass room, sword room, that whole area where everyone goes on default settings.

[AguaMoose]

HUGE find. Thank you. That has now been fixed and reposted. Everyone should redownload that map to fix that issue.

Thanks.

There also a BR on Isolation that is on 30 second respawn and the rest are on 10

[PF Silence]

Don't know if anyone noticed this yet, but if you happen to jump while attempting to go through the portals in isolation you get the "Teleporter is blocked" message. That and the fact that you always come out facing forwards is somewhat of a hinderance.

[That-DAM-n00b]

IMO Snipe tower on Lockout is much less desirable than BR tower because of the limited space to move around and the chance to catch nades. For this reason Snipe tower is even less of a power position on Guardian. Their incentive to move across is Camo and possibly grabbing Mauler on the way. Camo is a huge asset in Halo 3 and can easily break setups.


I don't know how many slayer customs you've played on guardian, but snipe+tree is typically the dominant position on the map.

[rabidw0lf]

I have a few questions and issues I would like to address. Maybe someone can explain why this happens or happened.

When picking up a custom power-up WITHOUT full shields, the power-up does nothing and your shields recharge to just your regular shields. I'm pretty sure it's a Bungie issue but that may need to be revised.

Also, the fusion coils on the Pit upstairs are unnecessary since you can just put a crate on top of the emergency spawn, preventing anyone from getting up there. The fusion coils really don't affect anything anyways, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

The run time minimum seems to be another issue again, but on maps with just "one said item", the run time minimum works perfectly. When you add in a map with "two said items" (the snipers of Narrows for example), the run time minimum is flawed. I may have just been imagining things but I think there was a game on Guardian I played where the other team had two snipers. Maybe that's how it should be, and if so, tell me.

These are a few things I wanted to bring up, if there is a way for me to possibly help edit future settings or you would like me to show you my concerns, hit me up with a friend request to my gamertag: Rawbillionaire.

Thank you for v3 settings and I hope that all issues can be sorted out and solid configurations can be put in place as quickly as possible.

[rabidw0lf]

I think deployablecover would be good , but one thing people should think about is wouldn't you hate it if you're playing KOTH on Isolation and someone drops a deployable cover and they end up getting a bunch of uncontested seconds . I don't know about you guys , but It'd be really frustrating I.M.O . Maybe in TS it would be alright , but not anything with time to win .

I've noticed many people posting about the deployable cover and I just needed to explain why I think it shouldn't be used.

The person who drops the deployable cover can hide behind it, and shoot out of it at anyone, without taking any damage back. The deployable cover is a one way street that I believe would take away competitive skilled battles.

Go test it for yourself right now if you don't believe me. Drop a deployable cover and stand behind it. Have someone stand in front of it. The person who dropped it will have a huge advantage since they can shoot RIGHT THROUGH IT without the shield being damaged at all. Everyone on the outside won't be able to do much but throw a nade. Now that there are only 2 nade slots and a 1 nade start (if I remember correctly), the deployable cover would be too much of a one sided battle, eliminating any sense of competitiveness.

[_PhantoM]

The hill on Construct below sword spawn doesn't seem like it would work.I've only played random 4s on it so I'll see how it is with an actual team.I really think the PD and DC should be tried and put on about a 3min respawn and I could see them working.

[SwiftRegicide]

Don't know if anyone noticed this yet, but if you happen to jump while attempting to go through the portals in isolation you get the "Teleporter is blocked" message. That and the fact that you always come out facing forwards is somewhat of a hinderance.
You come out the way glowing leg is facing, why would you want to come out backwards? It does say "Teleporter is blocked" but it still lets you through.

[o_HutcH_o]

I'm really enjoying the new Koth settings, it really allows for the better team to prevail. It's sad that there is only one oddball map, I wish bungie would come out with a new map for us to play it on as well as FFA. :(

[Squirrel]

the new koths aren't as good as the v2 ones. the only thing that needed to be changed was the blue hill in guardian and possibly the big lift hill on construct.

[Squirrel]

also ctf pit feels a lot slower paced without camo. also i think the snipe spawn on that map might be a bit too fast. there's been times where it felt like everyone had a sniper on each team

[Suit and Tie]

also ctf pit feels a lot slower paced without camo. also i think the snipe spawn on that map might be a bit too fast. there's been times where it felt like everyone had a sniper on each team
Agree with the Sniper being too fast.

[Plagued]

After playing Isolation today I have found that the map is just a huge campfest.

A smart team will have all 4 players setting up in the back of the bases, 2 on the left side, 2 watching rockets. Since there is so much cover in the back of the bases you really don't need to worry about a sniper, so that's why rockets are really the only power weapon you need to watch.

If a team successfully pushes using the teleporters to rush one side whoever has the rockets most likely will clear out the opposing team.

My idea to make this map less campy and more balanced is to do this:

-Place Sniper at Top Silver
-Place Rockets at v3 Sniper

My reasons for the Sniper change is because there is no action up top, there needs to be a reason to go up top. All of the action on this map is underground.

Reasons for the Rocket change is because since the rocket spawn is visible to each base by looking through the lift tunnels. Being able to see the spawn creates even more campiness. By putting them up at v3 Sniper it makes the team have to push on the left side of the map, and the right side (Top Silver/Sniper).

Here is another suggestion i'm not completely sure about, but i'm definitely sure about the Rocket/Sniper changes:

-Place an OS at Default Rocket

Now this suggestion may or may not work, but I believe this map needs an OS.

The reason I want an OS on the map is because the map is so open that it needs a powerup for a team to be able to push on the opposing team. The reason for it at Default Rocket spawn is so it is accessible by Top Silver and Back Sniper Bridge while being balanced. Not being able to see the OS spawn from the back of the bases also creates movement.

This map needs more movement by making Rockets extremely hard to retrieve while Sniper being Top Silver, it creates balance.

Making sure the Sniper and OS aren't visible to the main power points of the map creates incredible balance. Since Rockets are so powerful though, you need to be able to see these weapons spawn or have been taken.

Please think about this suggestion, because I would really hate to see this map get removed just because many people don't like it. By doing these changes I really believe it can show the true potential for this map.

[Status]

I think the mauler placement is really bad on Guardian.

The team that spawns elbow has better access to sniper, and equal access to mauler and camo.

The team that spawns bottom blue has only equal access to mauler and camo.

There needs to be something closer to BR tower in order for bottom blue spawn to be equal to elbow spawn.

Plasma pistol in green room (original shotgun spawn) perhaps?

Great point and I think your bold suggestion should really be considered.

[T3st1fy]

I think the mauler placement is really bad on Guardian.

The team that spawns elbow has better access to sniper, and equal access to mauler and camo.

The team that spawns bottom blue has only equal access to mauler and camo.

There needs to be something closer to BR tower in order for bottom blue spawn to be equal to elbow spawn.

Plasma pistol in green room (original shotgun spawn) perhaps?

Idk man... this was my view at first but then I realized that each team has pretty much equal chance to get all the weapons on the map. It is possible for the green spawn team to rush sniper and control it. I have done it many times in customs. It is very risky though, just how elbow rushing camo is risky, but it is POSSIBLE. I think each team has a pretty freakin perfect equality of getting all the power weapons on the map. (Also it is faster for the green spawn team to get the mauler if they jump from shortcut to Y1 bridge)

[Corner-Trap]

I have a few questions about the MLG settings.

1) Starting with the BR:

In Halo 2 it made sense to start with the BR considering that the SMG was a bit underpowered, and you needed something decent to start off with. But in Halo 3, the AR seems more than adequate.

2) Turning off radars:

I know this was also set in Halo 2, but I don't really agree with it. Turning these off makes things like radar fake outs and crouch walking useless. There's just a little more potential for strategy if these things are kept on.

3) Taking out equipment:

I seriously don't understand this one. Theres a lot of strategy and techniques that can potentially be created with them. Radar jammers and trip mines should be taken out because they're as hazardous to your own team as they are to the opposing team. But every other equipment in the game has a legitimate use. Taking these things out just seems to make the game more simplistic.

The only thing I really agree with is the shift in weapon and power-up placements. Halo 3's maps are already flawed, so this is a good solution to accommodate that.

[LtMateo]

I have a few questions about the MLG settings.

1) Starting with the BR:

In Halo 2 it made sense to start with the BR considering that the SMG was a bit underpowered, and you needed something decent to start off with. But in Halo 3, the AR seems more than adequate.

2) Turning off radars:

I know this was also set in Halo 2, but I don't really agree with it. Turning these off makes things like radar fake outs and crouch walking useless. There's just a little more potential for strategy if these things are kept on.

3) Taking out equipment:

I seriously don't understand this one. Theres a lot of strategy and techniques that can potentially be created with them. Radar jammers and trip mines should be taken out because they're as hazardous to your own team as they are to the opposing team. But every other equipment in the game has a legitimate use. Taking these things out just seems to make the game more simplistic.

The only thing I really agree with is the shift in weapon and power-up placements. Halo 3's maps are already flawed, so this is a good solution to accommodate that.


this has to be a joke right?

[Corner-Trap]

this has to be a joke right?

No, not at all. I'm basically a noob, so I'm just looking for some clarification.

[defghik]

1) Starting with the BR:

In Halo 2 it made sense to start with the BR considering that the SMG was a bit underpowered, and you needed something decent to start off with. But in Halo 3, the AR seems more than adequate.

There are many reasons why the BR is the starting weapon in MLG, but I'll outline a few. The first reason is that the AR takes extremely little mechanical skill to use. It is extremely easy to aim and there is almost nothing a player can do to dodge the aim of somebody using an AR. Whoever shoots first is going to win the fight the vast majority of the time, because in the ranges where it will work at all, it kills so fast that there isn't much you can do to win a fight where you weren't the first to shoot.

Another is because it has a very limited range. At high levels of play, the game would turn into a complete slaughterfest where one team has all of the weapons and the other side gets hopelessly spawn killed over and over because they only have ARs and they can't fight back. Many times spawns would determine the outcome of entire games.

The last reason is that ARs don't really encourage teamwork. Because it has such a limited range, you cannot call out for help and get it before the fight is over anyway.

2) Turning off radars:

I know this was also set in Halo 2, but I don't really agree with it. Turning these off makes things like radar fake outs and crouch walking useless. There's just a little more potential for strategy if these things are kept on.

Strategy is actually diminished hugely with radar on, for the simple reason that because enemies are already displayed on your radar, often teams don't have to communicate because players will already know there is an enemy nearby because of the radar. Crouch walking slows down the pace of the game dramatically, which is something that should be avoided.

I seriously don't understand this one. Theres a lot of strategy and techniques that can potentially be created with them. Radar jammers and trip mines should be taken out because they're as hazardous to your own team as they are to the opposing team. But every other equipment in the game has a legitimate use. Taking these things out just seems to make the game more simplistic.

MLG hasn't completely ruled out use of equipment yet, but they haven't found a place for it. The biggest reason it isn't there is because equipment requires no thought or skill to use. Regenerators and Bubble Shields are essentially "get out of death free cards" because if you are being damaged, hit X and there is now very little or nothing a team can do about you. No thought or skill there. Power Drainers are essentially grenades with a big (and mostly unavoidable) blast radius. The only piece of equipment that I can see being used is Deployable Cover because it only protects you from one direction and, because of that, has some thought involved in using it.

[Rippsik]

As to Narrows, I think it's been skipped over. I spent an hour Forging v3 to see if I could come up with anything better. What I added:

Top Middle Ledge: OS instead of Mauler

Ledges on each side of the Top Middle Ledge, on edge facing OS: Maulers on 90 sec respawn, no spare clips. They're basically intended for temporary use while trying to regain control of middle or to kill an enemy or slow down a middle-charge.

Bottom Platforms (old Brute Shot spawn): Teleporters - you have to jump into them, and you can't hop between them because you have to walk out of them and back into them. Each porter can see the other one, so you can't camp them. This set up kindof reminds me of the H1 ports on Boarding Action

Old Bubble Shield Spawn: Deployable Covers on 30 second respawn. Use? Throw them off the lifts to block enemies whoring the cannon, and for guarding players of course.

If you want to test out this map, download "MLG Narrows vX (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=H1%20Rippsik)" on my Fileshare.

I'd really appreciate any comparisons to v3, or any feedback on gameplay.

[o-SnEAk-o]

I haven't decided what to think about the v3 settings, I kind of miss the camo on pit.

[Corner-Trap]

snip.

Thanks, that explains a lot for me. I now understand why you start with BR's and why radars are turned off. I'm also kinda seeing why equipment hasn't been included yet. But even though they don't require any technical skill, they do require some strategic thought. Not everything in the game needs to require technical expertise to be included. Equipment can be over powering in TS, but on objective based games they seem more practical.

[invsn]

Killa, have you guys been thinking of ways to implement equipment? At all? Or are you guys done with it? You dropped and it's not coming.

Is there hope?
no, please never imagine puting equipment in, ever.

Maps are great by the way, <3 yew

[SQEEkS07]

-Place Sniper at Top Silver
-Place Rockets at v3 Sniper

I've always thought that'd be a good idea Killa KC should try this out for next settings.

[That-DAM-n00b]

But there needs to be incentive to go bottom, a custom OS perhaps?

[Plagued]

But there needs to be incentive to go bottom, a custom OS perhaps?

Read my post on Page 9. I'm thinking OS at Default Rockets.

[Corner-Trap]

Why are some of y'all against adding equipment? Keeping them in adds a nice amount of depth to the game, completely removing them makes the game a bit more simplistic, and it feels like a botched Halo 2.

[Corner-Trap]

Why is it that Swords, Hammers, and Shotguns have all been replaced by Maulers? Whats the reasoning behind that?

[cav23j]

Why is it that Swords, Hammers, and Shotguns have all been replaced by Maulers? Whats the reasoning behind that?

because hammer takes no skill because you can kill people through walls
and shotgun and sword are to powerful

[MiLKaMP.]

Has moving the snipers on narrows to the default power-up spawn been considered at all?

[FE Thebox]

KC, I respect most of the work that you do but I have to vent about Guardian, Construct, and The Pit KOTH gametypes. The hills are way too small, I played these gametypes with good people about 4 times now and I think a team has broken 200 once out of those four rotations. Another thing about the hills is that it moves back to the most open spot on the map every second hill, ????. I think you should relook these gametypes over and if you want to talk civally about it you are welcome to aim me at Hey It Is Jesus.

[.XpLiCiT]

KC, I respect most of the work that you do but I have to vent about Guardian, Construct, and The Pit KOTH gametypes. The hills are way too small, I played these gametypes with good people about 4 times now and I think a team has broken 200 once out of those four rotations. Another thing about the hills is that it moves back to the most open spot on the map every second hill, ????. I think you should relook these gametypes over and if you want to talk civally about it you are welcome to aim me at Hey It Is Jesus.


I agree. I feel the whole idea of making the hills smaller was a great idea, but at I think they were made a little too small. The hills now can just be naded out way too easily, and like Box said its hard for a team to break 200 seconds. Also on Construct, rockets just seem wayyy to over-powering imo. For instance, someone calls out, "open purple", a guy with rockets can just shoot a rocket in there, with nades as well, and basically get an automatic kill. I like the idea of the sniper spawning where it now spawns, but once the game gets going, it basically is never used because of the spot, except for when the hills spawns there, which is a wide open area that can be easily naded/rocketed out..you have to drop down from sword grab it, and then go back up top, which I don't think works out that well. And if you want to have a mauler on The Pit maybe put just 1 where camo used to be.

These are just my thoughts on the new changes, which this thread is for.. so please don't take anything as an insult.

[Dragooneer]

because hammer takes no skill because you can kill people through walls
and shotgun and sword are to powerful

You're kidding, right? I would think it'd take skill to hit someone through a wall, considering you can't see them.

[Corner-Trap]

because hammer takes no skill because you can kill people through walls
and shotgun and sword are to powerful

That makes no sense. I thought power weapons were suppose to be powerful. Both the sword and shotgun have been weaken from their H2 versions. Y'all are seriously trying to remove variety from this game.

[o-SnEAk-o]

That makes no sense. I thought power weapons were suppose to be powerful. Both the sword and shotgun have been weaken from their H2 versions. Y'all are seriously trying to remove variety from this game.
Whoah! I don't know where you have been but the shotgun is way more powerful in H3 than in H2. Its back to what it used to be and is way more consistant. I like the shotgun and personally I think it should be put back in on a few maps..maybe with reduced amo on 3 min. spawns or something, treat it like a power weapon.

[Corner-Trap]

Whoah! I don't know where you have been but the shotgun is way more powerful in H3 than in H2. Its back to what it used to be and is way more consistant. I like the shotgun and personally I think it should be put back in on a few maps..maybe with reduced amo on 3 min. spawns or something, treat it like a power weapon.

Well by weakened I was only referring to the smaller clip size. The only reason I think the shotgun may seem more powerful is because the damage is a lot more consistent.

[cav23j]

You're kidding, right? I would think it'd take skill to hit someone through a wall, considering you can't see them.

that was an explaination from mlg in one of there setting releases..
and people would use a hammer to get on top of thing above the top mid of guardian

[adeadlyrabbit]

DO NOT DOWNLOAD!!!!

Just wait for V4. I promise you this is a complete waste of time. They can not possibly be serious about these changes.

[SwiftRegicide]

DO NOT DOWNLOAD!!!!

Just wait for V4. I promise you this is a complete waste of time. They can not possibly be serious about these changes.
You're cute.

[Status]

I think a laser on Isolation would really be a sought-after weapon. It can be pretty dominant holding one at top grey.

If it were up to me (to design Iso) I would have a sniper at the back of each base, a laser bottom grey (default shottie spawn), rocket in mid base (default sniper spawn) and perhaps a camo underneath back-wall/center dirt (between the two dirt columns or whatever they are underneath).

On construct, I would place a Laser top gold lift on a 3 minute drop timer.

[defghik]

You're kidding, right? I would think it'd take skill to hit someone through a wall, considering you can't see them.
Wow. No, it takes LUCK to hit someone when you can't see them. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, since you can't see them, you don't know where they are. If you manage to hit them, it's pure luck and nothing else.

Also, to the other poster - the Sword was made less powerful, but the Shotgun is significantly more powerful. Within melee range, it's a 1 hit kill 99% of the time. It is far more consistent than the Halo 2 shotgun, except it is more powerful in close range, and does more damage at distance. The smaller clip size means nothing, because nobody uses 6 shots without having time to reload.

[Corner-Trap]

Well, I'm still waiting to here a good reason why the swords, shotguns, and gravity hammers have all been replaced by maulers. The whole "those weapons are too powerful" argument doesn't quite cut it.

[chaosTheory_s3]

Well, I'm still waiting to here a good reason why the swords, shotguns, and gravity hammers have all been replaced by maulers. The whole "those weapons are too powerful" argument doesn't quite cut it.
Thats essentially all there is to it, sorry. When you combine the speed of a BR kill, the lack of options up close, the decision to increase damage to 110% and the first-hit-doesnt-necessarily-win melee system then you get a situation in which MLG deemed most 1 hit kill weapons slightly unbalanced for competitive play. The Mauler is the weakest of the close range guns and it was used instead. These settings, however, are not final and there likely will be changes before the first Lan Event. We may see the shotgun again, who knows?

And I dont meant to come off like a jerk here but - whether or not it "cuts it" for you specifically is not the issue; you're not owed a special explanation that works for you. The guys making these settings have been creating tournament Halo gametypes for the last 6 years. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

[DirectXpert]

Well, I'm still waiting to here a good reason why the swords, shotguns, and gravity hammers have all been replaced by maulers. The whole "those weapons are too powerful" argument doesn't quite cut it.
Sword: Pull out delay is annoying.
Shotgun: Too much damage on 110%.
Hammer: Pull out delay, and lunge delay. And it's a giant HAMMER.

[Corner-Trap]

Thats essentially all there is to it, sorry. When you combine the speed of a BR kill, the lack of options up close, the decision to increase damage to 110% and the first-hit-doesnt-necessarily-win melee system then you get a situation in which MLG deemed most 1 hit kill weapons slightly unbalanced for competitive play. The Mauler is the weakest of the close range guns and it was used instead. These settings, however, are not final and there likely will be changes before the first Lan Event. We may see the shotgun again, who knows?

And I dont meant to come off like a jerk here but - whether or not it "cuts it" for you specifically is not the issue; you're not owed a special explanation that works for you. The guys making these settings have been creating tournament Halo gametypes for the last 6 years. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

I just don't like how the close range combat in H3 seems more limited than H2's. I'm not sure why one hit kill weapons are deemed unbalanced. The sword especially has me puzzled considering it was allowed in H2, and has been fairly weakened in H3, so I don't see how it can be considered unbalanced now and not before. I'm really glad these settings aren't permanent because I hope things change. Watching the MLG season under these rules would be rather boring and feel like a poor mans H2.

EDIT:

Sword: Pull out delay is annoying.
Shotgun: Too much damage on 110%.
Hammer: Pull out delay, and lunge delay. And it's a giant HAMMER.

So you're saying that the pull out delay is reason enough to ban a weapon?

[defghik]

I just don't like how the close range combat in H3 seems more limited than H2's. I'm not sure why one hit kill weapons are deemed unbalanced. The sword especially has me puzzled considering it was allowed in H2, and has been fairly weakened in H3, so I don't see how it can be considered unbalanced now and not before. I'm really glad these settings aren't permanent because I hope things change. Watching the MLG season under these rules would be rather boring and feel like a poor mans H2.

EDIT:



So you're saying that the pull out delay is reason enough to ban a weapon?
One hit kill weapons are deemed unbalanced because realistically, if you don't have one yourself, there is nothing you can do to win the fight. In Halo 1, you could BLB or pull off a really quick 3 shot. in Halo 2, you could BXB or BXR. In Halo 3, you don't have any viable options for taking out a 1 hit kill close range weapon (the Shotgun is the only weapon in this case, I guess, because of the sword and hammer's pull out time). The sword wasn't taken out because it was unbalanced, quite the opposite, really. Because of the pull out time, it's basically useless against a competent team.

[MLGAvante]

i do like the new hills o construct i just kinda dont like how the sniper spawns in the bottom hill..

[Status]

I think the sword could be incorporated into some maps/gametypes as they are now.

I don't see how the decision makers think its overpowered. There's a long delay between when you unsheath and when you can cut, AND it has ****ing ammo now.

[Corner-Trap]

One hit kill weapons are deemed unbalanced because realistically, if you don't have one yourself, there is nothing you can do to win the fight. In Halo 1, you could BLB or pull off a really quick 3 shot. in Halo 2, you could BXB or BXR. In Halo 3, you don't have any viable options for taking out a 1 hit kill close range weapon (the Shotgun is the only weapon in this case, I guess, because of the sword and hammer's pull out time). The sword wasn't taken out because it was unbalanced, quite the opposite, really. Because of the pull out time, it's basically useless against a competent team.

BXB's are still in H3, so that basically overrules your statement. And even though the sword and hammer have pull out time they are still very competent weapons. Sure we won't be able to do the pop and kill trick, but thats not the only way to use the weapon.

[SQEEkS07]

I think out of the three close range weapons (shotgun,sword,and hammer) the sword will most likely be used as a replacment for the mauler if it is replace.Because the sword takes longer to pull out which takes more awarness of where your apponents and the shortend lunge . All in all I think the sword takes the most skill to use out of the shotgun,sword, and hammer.

[MLJesus]

I think the map changes to v3 are great.
Adds a new twist to playing the maps and I've enjoyed the games I've played on them.

As for the settings, I still enjoy the speed.
And although it's fun to kill people faster with the BR due to the 110% damage, I still maintain that the MLG needs to decide on having either 110% damage and 100% shield regen or 100% damage and 90% shield regen.

If the MLG is all about skill, I still don't understand why these settings make it so easy to kill. It still seems to me as if the MLG is on a crusade to make H3 play exactly like H2.

If that's the case, why not just increase the hit damage until a Pistol takes only 3 shots to kill and make the Pistol the starting weapon?

Weapon selection is still poor.
Put some dual wields on for crying out loud.
You know most people aren't gonna pick them up anyway, but I wanna see some sick moments where they are picked up.
Walshy pulled off some great stunts on Sanct. last season with duals.

As for equipment.
I saw PUT SOME IN.
Don't over due it, obviously.
But you can't tell me that getting a beatdown with Camo takes a lot of skill and then say that a bubble shield is laughable.
I mean, honestly... why even have the Overshield then?

I know this is a long post...
Bottom line, the settings are good fun but they are plain and limited.

[Corner-Trap]

^^^

Yeah, thats one thing that truly bothering me right now. It seems like they're to focused on making the game play like H2. Not to sound like Bungie.net but on some aspects we should have just left the game alone and accepted it for what it is.

[PoGo___mlg_]

Has anyone ever though of TripMine as equipment? Takes skill to use, has slightly smaller blast radius than a PD and needs to be detonated manually (Shot) in a tense situation

[The OZ]

lol. Skill skill skill, theres a difference between that and randomness. Any random player can have that one piece of equipment. How can you be skilled at using it? Just press the panic button and expect miracles.
-Sorry.

[Corner-Trap]

Whats with all these emphasis on skill? How much technical expertise required to use an item shouldn't be a deciding factor in anything.

[BLUEFIR3]

^^^

Yeah, thats one thing that truly bothering me right now. It seems like they're to focused on making the game play like H2. Not to sound like Bungie.net but on some aspects we should have just left the game alone and accepted it for what it is.

When theres so many options there to edit why would you? We are trying to make the game the best possible competitive game we can, not halo 2. If these options were avalible in h1 or even h2 they would be used. If you dont like the mlg setting or things being changed go play hc or just mm in general.

[BLUEFIR3]

BXB's are still in H3, so that basically overrules your statement. And even though the sword and hammer have pull out time they are still very competent weapons. Sure we won't be able to do the pop and kill trick, but thats not the only way to use the weapon.

the double melee dosent work when they have: hammer, sword, or shotty.

Also the double melee dosent work unless they melee you at the same time... so your statements all together are invalid.

[BLUEFIR3]

Im gonna change up some things on a few maps and test them out later, if anyone wants to test them with me msg me on aim. The Bluefir3 Exp

[Ryot]

^^^

Yeah, thats one thing that truly bothering me right now. It seems like they're to focused on making the game play like H2. Not to sound like Bungie.net but on some aspects we should have just left the game alone and accepted it for what it is.

i like '08 kids almost as much as '07 kids. almost.

If we accept the game for what it is, then we basically do have a worse Halo 2 with some fun perks and new weapons (oh, let's not forget the beautiful graphics). But if we forge and change the game settings, then we have a shot at creating a decent competitive game. Changing and testing stuff is a very long process, you have to understand that.

[KrAyZiE]

double post, whooooops :)

[KrAyZiE]

Whats with all these emphasis on skill? How much technical expertise required to use an item shouldn't be a deciding factor in anything.

This game is being played for a LOT of money, wouldn't you want skill to be a bigger factor than having something be random?

'08 kids... :banghead:

[BLUEFIR3]

Ok so i just changed iso quite a bit and need some ppl to test it. I also changed some on narrows and added a single equip that i had wanted to use for a long time and the only one i would ever consider in mlg.

Im gonna work on guardian, construct, and pit later.. tho i dont think those can be worked on much.

[chaosTheory_s3]

Whats with all these emphasis on skill? How much technical expertise required to use an item shouldn't be a deciding factor in anything.
Theres a place for those kind of contests. Las Vegas.

[Corner-Trap]

I guess I'm simply not used to this type of community. I've spent most of my competitive gaming time with the fighting game community, and using anything aside from the default settings is a bit taboo. Only game to break the rule is Smash(but there were good reasons behind it). I guess I'm going to have to view this game as I view Smash. In which the game was never designed for competitive play, so settings have to be changed to make it playable at high levels.

[defghik]

BXB's are still in H3, so that basically overrules your statement. And even though the sword and hammer have pull out time they are still very competent weapons. Sure we won't be able to do the pop and kill trick, but thats not the only way to use the weapon.
The BXB in Halo 3 only works if your opponent is meleeing you at the same time, but since the other weapons are 1 hit kill weapons anyway, it's useless. Even against a non 1 hit kill weapon, it is so unpractical to try because you don't know if they are going to melee at the perfect time for the glitch to work. Also, against good teams who team shoot, the sword and hammer will get killed very quickly if they keep it out. The person keeping it out also won't be able to team shoot, which will be very detrimental to a team.

[chaosTheory_s3]

I guess I'm simply not used to this type of community. I've spent most of my competitive gaming time with the fighting game community, and using anything aside from the default settings is a bit taboo. Only game to break the rule is Smash(but there were good reasons behind it). I guess I'm going to have to view this game as I view Smash. In which the game was never designed for competitive play, so settings have to be changed to make it playable at high levels.
Very mature response. That's exactly how you should look at it. Halo 3 was CERTAINLY not intended for competitive play... we dont want random regenerators, hammers and bubbleshields any more than you want random pokeballs in an epic Ken vs PC Chris match. It ruins it.

[ITFI DiamonD]

mlg is amaazing at map editing

[Mowgli1]

Wheres Neutral Bomb ?

thats what im saying. neutral bomb on the pit should definitely be considered for v4 imo. everytime i have played it on team hardcore, it has always been very close and competitive

[Mowgli1]

Maps are amazing. Iso is a less horrible now with the teles. Construct is also much better with the rockets on extension and the snipe below default sword.

One thing I noticed though, it has nothing to do with gameplay but several of the weapons are off center and kind of look thrown on to the map. For example the BR spawn bottom yellow on Guardian. I wasn't sure if that spawn was intentional or not.

i also noticed that when i was going through all of the maps. but yeah the br on bottom yellow on guardian looks awkwardly placed and unintentional because there isnt one on the other side

[Mowgli1]

i dont think the addition of equipment would make the game more competitive. i think it would only make it less competitive

also, i dont understand why the addition of the plasma pistol was necessary. i mean in h2 it was a power weapon, but not so much for h3. does anyone actually use the pp?

[BLUEFIR3]

thats what im saying. neutral bomb on the pit should definitely be considered for v4 imo. everytime i have played it on team hardcore, it has always been very close and competitive

It WILL be in v4 on pit.

[BLUEFIR3]

i dont think the addition of equipment would make the game more competitive. i think it would only make it less competitive

also, i dont understand why the addition of the plasma pistol was necessary. i mean in h2 it was a power weapon, but not so much for h3. does anyone actually use the pp?

I use the pp quite a bit if i come across it, i dont rush it by any means but should i find it i use it.

I think the deployable cover is the only equip that can be used and i think the only map it could be used on right would be narrows..

[Squirrel]

the spawns in guardian ball = :[

[SQEEkS07]

the spawns in guardian ball = :[

QFT

[That-DAM-n00b]

That probably has to do with the spawn zones, I'll take a look at it and see.

[Killa KC]

the spawns in guardian ball = :[

explain?

[Killa KC]

I think the deployable cover is the only equip that can be used and i think the only map it could be used on right would be narrows..

Deployable cover will never work on narrows because you can throw it behind the flag carrier. Narrows has such small hallways to shoot through that a deployable cover can almost prevent any cross map shooting across an entire side of the map.

[That-DAM-n00b]

explain?

I think he's referring to how you can have control of say sniper, but you die and spawn on the other side of the map.

[Squirrel]

you spawn away from the oddball, even if your team is still holding down snipe/br. ex. the other team is controlling snipe tower and you kill one guy. this is the time to rush, right? wrong. more often than not the player that is killed gets a god spawn at blue and pretty much rapes your team. you can never tell if they will spawn at green/elbow or at blue, making it a lot harder to regain control of the oddball. it was more noticeable on the pit but still occurs on guardian. koth > ball for the most part in h3 although the top middle hill on guardian is too small.

[BLUEFIR3]

Deployable cover will never work on narrows because you can throw it behind the flag carrier. Narrows has such small hallways to shoot through that a deployable cover can almost prevent any cross map shooting across an entire side of the map.

I tested it and it added some setup and strat to the choas top mid that is narrows

also u need to get on later and look at this iso i made, i played it and it played much better than the v3 iso.

[Ryot]

I tested it and it added some setup and strat to the choas top mid that is narrows

also u need to get on later and look at this iso i made, i played it and it played much better than the v3 iso.

I'm gonna actually agree that deployable cover on Narrows would we screwy because the map is, well, narrow. However, on Iso they could be sweet, maybe one at each base on a 2-min timer. Could be used to make a push towards the middle, or help in KOTH since the hills are so small. Just throwing ideas out there.

[LeE]

On Isolation: I think it needs more weapons to force people to move around the map. I think there should be an OS at the current rocket spawn, a a sniper at the back of both bases, and rockets either at the current snipe spawn or at shotgun.

[Ryot]

On Isolation: I think it needs more weapons to force people to move around the map. I think there should be an OS at the current rocket spawn, a a sniper at the back of both bases, and rockets either at the current snipe spawn or at shotgun.

Honestly those changes would make that map really good.

[SQEEkS07]

I.M.O I don't think OS would be good on this map , but having rockets at shotgun spawn would be pretty good for the map I.M.O

[Squirrel]

I can actually see Lee's suggestions working really well for Iso.

[The OZ]

I.M.O I don't think OS would be good on this map , but having rockets at shotgun spawn would be pretty good for the map I.M.O
Actually OS sounds great imo. You always seem to be one shot because your constantly being team shooted. Idk, just seems like it can turn a game around when your team has overshield, unlike on The Pit were it doesnt pose a major threat.

[LimiTT]

After running games on v3, It still doen't feel like i'm playing a new game. Personally, I would like to see more variety in the game. I have been playing some customs with settings i made and have had more fun. Not only that but I feel like i'm playing H3 not H2. I used some equipment and new weapons such as the plasma rifle and energy drain.

[thekad]

Disappointing.

[SQEEkS07]

Disappointing.

I think the same about you .

[ledzeppelin2112]

I dont really have a problem with any of the changes. I would like to know why there is no Isolation CTF.

[Master Dictator]

why arent the new map in V3 atleast Found shoud be are u sayin MLG can make a map on foundary =D

[boo0m]

Actually OS sounds great imo. You always seem to be one shot because your constantly being team shooted. Idk, just seems like it can turn a game around when your team has overshield, unlike on The Pit were it doesnt pose a major threat.

I think V3 is really nice. I wouldn't mind seeing an overshield but I know i wouldn't like seeing O.S. with rockets running around on ISO. If MLG could find a nice balance point, it would be better..

[SQEEkS07]

I think V3 is really nice. I wouldn't mind seeing an overshield but I know i wouldn't like seeing O.S. with rockets running around on ISO. If MLG could find a nice balance point, it would be better..
I wouldn't like seeing that either overshield would dominate that map.

[xXApathy]

Im happy with v3 so far.

[I_Malevolent_I]

Looks Great!

Is there any chance that CTF Construct will be added in V4?


I wouldn't recommend a CTF Game on any map that has more vertical play than horizontal play, Unless what you really want is a 3 minute game :(

I mean, just look at construct as a map, where are two symetrical spots for flags to be placed in that take some time to get to a flag capture spot? the only way I can think of is scoring spots at Missile Pod spawn and Spartan Laser spawn, with the Flag Spaws being up at the top of both Purple lifts, and that would be absurd in my opinion.

[StroH]

When you grab OS without full shield on The Pit, you don't get the overshield. It still makes you invulnerable for a few seconds, but then your shield just recharches to 100%.

Is this a glitch on Bungie's side, can it be fixed, or was this the original intention?

[Zanno]

I was going to post an example map with some screenshots but unfortunately my xbox has red ringed!

I am very saddened by the lack of an OS on Guardian and I had a suggestion for alternate item placement in v4. The changes were as follows:

1) PP on Elbow
2) OS in bottom mid on the outer edge of the room opposite Jungle (Placing it where mauler is could block shots from Yellow 1 to Snipe 1).
OS does not spawn at the start of the game.
3) Mauler moved to mm shotgun spawn.
4) Initial spawn locations moved to Snipe 1 and Yellow 2

So this would mean one team gets instant camo and the other team gets instant snipe, one team has easy access to PP, the other team has easy access to Mauler. If the players running for both PP and Mauler were to immediately go for it, they should be able to grab it and get into combat in a comparable timeframe. Given that there is no OS on game start the first minute of the game won't devolve into nade spam wars like it does on the obligatory MM pit rocket fight, even if it was there on start, it would very unlikely anyone could grab it and obtain a charge.

If for whatever reason it's a bad idea to put a PP on Guardian, then I would place Mauler on top mid instead.

This whole thing should be very easy to construct if anyone would like to test it out themselves.

[Dreiling1]

I completely disagree with everything you just stated... The snipe 2 spawn could easily prenade and get spawn kills like nothing. Moving mauler to shotgun is very unbalanced. There is no need for OS on gaurdian with a camo, mauler, and sniper, and plus its way to small. PP elbow??

[Cadillac]

Isolation is not a good competitive map period and needs to be removed and KoTH is not a good competitive gametype period and should be removed.

[Zanno]

I completely disagree with everything you just stated... The snipe 2 spawn could easily prenade and get spawn kills like nothing. Moving mauler to shotgun is very unbalanced. There is no need for OS on gaurdian with a camo, mauler, and sniper, and plus its way to small. PP elbow??I don't even know what the you're saying. Did you mean Yellow 2 or Snipe 1? Why is so imba to move mauler to shotgun? Because bungie put it there and everything they do is obviously crap?

Thanks to my background playing Quake, UT, and Halo 1, I am a fan of maps having many different points of control. While the MLG maps are coming along quite nicely I feel they still a little hollow. I do not like the Halo 2 style of maps which is typically "hi i'm lockout, i have a sniper rifle and a sword ^_^". Nearly every single H1 map has a Snipe, Rocket, Camo, OS, Shotgun, multiple Health Packs, the occasional PR/PP, and the kitchen sink, all on spawn timers nearly twice as fast as Halo 3 MLG. This "lots of items and weapons" type of map forces players to into a playstyle where their team must be in a lot of places at a lot of times and prevents standoffs from occurring.

[Airwags]

Can somebody explain to me why flag and ball carriers run so slow still? In Halo 1 flag and ball carriers ran normal speed and it worked great. For some reason Bungie decided to change this in Halo 2 but it was helped by the fact you could throw the flag. Now in Halo 3 we have the option to fix this but it hasn't been. Isn't the fact that you can't shoot while moving the flag or ball enough of a handicap? Does it really add anything to the game play to make them run so slow?

[Zanno]

Can somebody explain to me why flag and ball carriers run so slow still? In Halo 1 flag and ball carriers ran normal speed and it worked great. For some reason Bungie decided to change this in Halo 2 but it was helped by the fact you could throw the flag. Now in Halo 3 we have the option to fix this but it hasn't been. Isn't the fact that you can't shoot while moving the flag or ball enough of a handicap? Does it really add anything to the game play to make them run so slow?think this one comes down to TSK (or lack thereof) really

[CT_Smoak]

they run slow so other team can kill crriar easier

[Airwags]

I understand that it makes it easier to kill the carrier when they are running slow. What I want to know is what competitive value does this have and is it really necessary?

[chaosTheory_s3]

think this one comes down to TSK (or lack thereof) really
Yeah but this exact same statement also negates your last post as well. When the BR sucks so bad that it takes more than 2 seconds to get a kill with it, you cant put a dozen things on the map that can beat it without breaking the game. Nexy is a DIE HARD halo 1 head - he realizes all the same things you do when designing these maps. It just doesnt work like h1 does, and it really cant =\

[TWISTED-BULLET]

Yeah but this exact same statement also negates your last post as well. When the BR sucks so bad that it takes more than 2 seconds to get a kill with it, you cant put a dozen things on the map that can beat it without breaking the game. Nexy is a DIE HARD halo 1 head - he realizes all the same things you do when designing these maps. It just doesnt work like h1 does, and it really cant =\

Well said.

[Zanno]

Yeah but this exact same statement also negates your last post as well. When the BR sucks so bad that it takes more than 2 seconds to get a kill with it, you cant put a dozen things on the map that can beat it without breaking the game. Nexy is a DIE HARD halo 1 head - he realizes all the same things you do when designing these maps. It just doesnt work like h1 does, and it really cant =\Hmm, never thought about that way. I concede you raise a very good point, and the only thing I can think of in reply is the balance between the H1/MLG OS, rocket and "shotgun" in H1/H3 and the BR/Pistol are comparable, though I must admit snipes bugger everything up ): I still think a sprinkling of extra mid tier weapons (mauler/pp) could help to prevent overdefensive play though, it's not like I'm suggesting they put a rocket and two snipes on the map.

I guess a better solution could be to preserve the number of spawn points on a map but have them come back faster and with less ammo. My foundry submission experimented with that but the whole map seems to have flown under the radar sadly.

[BullxTru3]

I love this map but sometimes when I play it, the rockets are there and sometimes not, by the way i mean at the start of the game.

[RoYaL1]

How long until they come up with official gametypes???:-?

[StroH]

When you grab OS without full shield on The Pit, you don't get the overshield. It still makes you invulnerable for a few seconds, but then your shield just recharches to 100%.

Is this a glitch on Bungie's side, can it be fixed, or was this the original intention?

=[

[Ownage36]

So, I was LANing with some friends and we play played a bunch of MLG games. For the most part I thought they were all good. Only thing was that in the Narrows, I was looking at the rockets and they disappeared! I heard someone else talking about this before. Anyone else see this happen?

[Airwags]

When you grab OS without full shield on The Pit, you don't get the overshield. It still makes you invulnerable for a few seconds, but then your shield just recharches to 100%.

Is this a glitch on Bungie's side, can it be fixed, or was this the original intention?
This is a glitch in the game, unfortunately there is nothing MLG can do about it but hopefully a fix will come in the AU.

So, I was LANing with some friends and we play played a bunch of MLG games. For the most part I thought they were all good. Only thing was that in the Narrows, I was looking at the rockets and they disappeared! I heard someone else talking about this before. Anyone else see this happen?The Rockets disappearing are caused by the halo 1 style drop spawns that MLG uses. If they are not picked up within a certain amount of time after spawning (don't remember the exact time) they'll disappear. This makes timing weapons even more of an importance.

[MandaGuevoBlaky]

I don't know I just feels so empty, and sometimes feels wrong no weapons no scenery, ball on construct is amazing, Koth sucks, no flags on Iso, no equipment:neutral:

MLG----->:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[SethMcloud]

I don't know I just feels so empty, and sometimes feels wrong no weapons no scenery, ball on construct is amazing, Koth sucks, no flags on Iso, no equipment:neutral:

MLG----->:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I kinda agree here. I can kinda understand no power-ups (regenerator make its all to easy to kill people) but maybe the deployable cover could be added in. Considering how long it takes to get back into a firefight after haveing your shields lowered. Just a suggestion though.

[MandaGuevoBlaky]

I kinda agree here. I can kinda understand no power-ups (regenerator make its all to easy to kill people) but maybe the deployable cover could be added in. Considering how long it takes to get back into a firefight after haveing your shields lowered. Just a suggestion though.
Agree, obviously there are equipments that are way too powerful, like the bubble shield, I hate it sometimes but it's also a strategical move to grab it and also to know HOW to use it!, the regen doesn't seems good, the power drain could be treated as a power weapon with long respawns, as you mentioned the the deployable cover could spice things up, SO plz MLG bring equipment back:neutral:


BTW: 110% damage is good for shooting, but when it comes to melees it just ruins the game it's almost like a BXR:(

[Onetwo]

I was thinking that making the shield regen speed 50% instead of the current 90% may make the game play better. You could make powerups that set you back to full shield quickly, like a healthpack. I haven't tested this yet, so I don't know exactly how it would play. It could be worth a try.

[Supportfish]

when can we expect v4, and when is the final decision on what the final version will be?

[Dreiling1]

are there gonna be any FFA maps made during v4??
I think epitaph might ( key word ) be a good ffa map with weapon adjustments.

I have a gaurdian one, its in my fileshare.

http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=nnnnnaeS

Its same placement with nades/brs/carbines. Theres only one other weapon on the map, bottom mid plasma pistol. Its more balanced, and no camo.

[GoneSoYoung87]

Some FFA maps would be amazing. I just played in a campus wide FFA tournament at my school, and we ended up playing straight map defaults on snowbound :banghead:

But, no one could figure out a better map that we hadn't played yet. So we got stuck with it.

[MandaGuevoBlaky]

Epitaph without shield doors is GREAT for FFA, it's fast paced and feels just like midship, and actually it's hard to camp like everyone says, in a 8 player all out FFA camping just screws you up

[Wasso]

i like the v3 very much:bow:

[Status]

Portable gravity lifts = good for The Pit and perhaps several Forged-Foundry variants
Power drainer = excellent for construct and narrows, good for the pit
Deployable cover = good for every map
Regen = potentially great for oddball, provided a respawn time of at least 2 minutes

[IXIDoNtAskIXI]

I just got my halo about 2 days ago and the first thing i did was play mlg, i think everything is good and down pact accept the oddball itself.

Ball is always fun on every map but i don't understand why the damage would be lowered if you have the ball, i mean you already have a disadvantage by holding the ball at least give the guy a chance so he can kill someone with it without having to drop it and use your br. I personally love holding ball for that exact reason because i love to just jump and fake people out then have it lead it to a ball kill, this will make oddball more fun for the guy holding it and it would need more skill in order to kill him.

So whoever does the game types if you decide to read thisit would be greatly appreciated if you just changed that for v4.

Thank you

-Dontaskk

[SquaII]

:) MLG v3 settings are great and also perfectly playable on LAN.My Team has just won a major LAN tourny in Germany so I know what I'm talking about:)
Great experience playing so many series with those settings and way better than 100% speed and damage,great job MLG.

Still I have to things I dislike nabout the settings and those are 2 hill locations.

The first one is on Pit Hill,the one that spawns under the bridge.It's too easy to nade people in there,especially on LAN where grenades on 110 damge do some major damage.

MY SUGGESTION IS TO PLACE IT ON TOP OF THE BRIDGE WHICH WORKS PERFECTLY FINE,ME AND MY TEAMMATES HAVE TESTED IT.It takes a lot more skill to hold it there and if you are inside the hill you can actually shoot people over long range distances.It can be fixed fast and makes the gametype a lot better,try it out for yourselves.

The second one isnt as important as the first one but I personally also dislike the bottom hill on construct,not because its open,but because spawns really screw you over sometimes and people kill you cause they spawn above you in the upper level.I'd change it with the one that was bottom middle in the v2n rules,took a lot skill to hold and had many places to rush it,but you could still setup and hold a lot of time when your setup was executed right.Also you would still have one hill at the lower and two at the higher level on con.

Other than that I completely love the v3 settings,great balance overall,I still think especially the middle hill on The Pit would be better on top of the bridge without a doubt.

P.S to DoNtAsk: There's no way MLG will make the Ball a 1 hit kill weapon,it's fine how it is now.You should try to drop the ball and shoot people,then pick it up and gain time again instead of going for beatdowns all the time...

[Frozen_Shot]

I love the first hill on the Pit. It’s equally balanced and it takes teamwork to stay alive in there. One thing i dont like is the first hill on Construct. It leads to the same predictable battles at the start of the game. Once you’re in the hill and your team is on open street and closed street. Their whole team spawns bottom gold every time or gold 2 and that’s leads to them nading the hill off their spawns. I think there are just too much unnecessary deaths, not saying i can do better but i think a small change of hill position even halfway down the steps would make the difference.

[Big Ed 13]

I loved Construct V2 and V1 but Construct v3 just doesn't work for me. I think the Rockets are just not the right fit on that map but hill is much more challenging now

[-Icon]

I loved Construct V2 and V1 but Construct v3 just doesn't work for me. I think the Rockets are just not the right fit on that map but hill is much more challenging now
I agree, the rockets seem to change that map to something entirely else. They respawn too often, where I feel it should be more about the Br. Also putting the sniper there makes it only viable to pick up when hill is there. Maybe somewhere different for the sniper spawn?

[.Rukus]

Please fix the KoTH game types on all maps, they are so annoying to play

[allnamesrtakent]

more grenades on guardian plz? i know the focus is on 4v4, but when you play it 2v2 or 3v3 it becomes impossible to find a nade when you need one. just one or two more spawns, not enough to cause constant spamming but enough to keep the fight moving

[c0mand3r]

i love new settings just wish there was like one more close rang weapon for each map or some cones or something lol they look empty

[Macauley]

This may have been posted before, may have been, because MLG is entirely against equipment, but someone from the Bungie.net forums thought of adding the Grav lift. As far as my short time on thinking I did (horrible gramma was a joke), I found that it would be a good strategy item, it doesn't break up the action much, but it's not like the Regenerater, power drainer and bubble shield.

It's just a thought and needs some discussion to sort it out.

[MandaGuevoBlaky]

I agree, the rockets seem to change that map to something entirely else. They respawn too often, where I feel it should be more about the Br. Also putting the sniper there makes it only viable to pick up when hill is there. Maybe somewhere different for the sniper spawn?
mmm actually I thought that sniper/rocket location was dumb but after playing enough hill games on construct I realize its actually a very strategical location, I got a link to a stats page of my last king construct game: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=304999165&player=I%20Blaky%20I (first off some of the guys I play'd with aren't very good).

I went +33 and I also got a descent amount of time in the hill, as you can see I got 7 kills with a sniper (I know they're just 7 kills but if it weren't by those kills we wouldn't have won the game) the other team overall only got 1 sniper kill, while we got 10 overall kills with the sniper, I also got the same number of kills with the rocket launcher that means that I put the same focus to the sniper as I did to the RL.

I'm starting to understand the timing on the sniper...it's weird cuz sometimes I just said "sniper should be up!" I went and there it was!!

My team controlled the RL and the Sniper the whole game, I was surprised because if you watch all other 10 games below this KotH game you'll find out that we lost...all of them, we didn't do well in those games until construct-KotH.

So after playing enough games I think Construct is a very good map with those changes ;)

[WaY_TooO_EazY]

I like the placing of the rockets and sniper on construct. It gives a lot more stategy to map control when you know you have to control lobby every 3 minutes to get the Rockets.

[OdSTxJuggernaut]

Okay, so is it just me, or is there any reason why, on The Pit, the rocket is not centered (but more towards Blue side, theoretically giving them a slight advatage), and the sniper on blue side not straightened to completely hide it behind the wall and out of view from front of red base (giving red side a slight advatage)? And, you cannot edit the sniper to reposition it either.

[Br00tal]

Okay, so is it just me, or is there any reason why, on The Pit, the rocket is not centered (but more towards Blue side, theoretically giving them a slight advatage), and the sniper on blue side not straightened to completely hide it behind the wall and out of view from front of red base (giving red side a slight advatage)? And, you cannot edit the sniper to reposition it either.

Most likely becuase there are so many square feet that are able to be toyed with in the forge. The space where rockets are positioned in V3 is a small akward rectangle. Which could be the reason for the "blue advantage" Although when I am either team I have no problem getting to rockets, nor have I noticed a problem. Secondly the snipe towers are not EXACTLY straight across from each other if you notice. That might be the reason for the not so visible sniper

[Tommy_Trash]

Anyone know if v4 are being released as planned today?

[OdSTxJuggernaut]

Anyone know if v4 are being released as planned today?

I'm pretty sure I read that the release date for v4 is tomorrow. I can only hope I'm ungrounded by then. lol

[Sultan Of Swing]

Sword: Pull out delay is annoying.
Shotgun: Too much damage on 110%.
Hammer: Pull out delay, and lunge delay. And it's a giant HAMMER.

ha ha ha

[Sultan Of Swing]

I didnt know you could shoot through the deployable cover?? Is that what someone said? I havent even tried that.

Also, after reading this thread in it's entirety so far, I'd like to say:
It's annoying seeing people acting over-aggressive in their posts towards other members of this site. ie) telling people to "GO play mm," or the excessive use of the word "kid," when who knows how old that person is. It would be nice to see a bit more constructiveness, but, I guess who knows what it's like to walk in your shoes.

[Ghostforfun]

Cool i have been wondering how to get these maps for a while..:pwned: