A roundtable thread with all the top forgers

[That-DAM-n00b]

Ok, I seriously have had enough of the ****ing infighting in this part of the community. It's stupid, it's petty, it looks bad on all of us, and frankly its embarrassing to watch.

So I'm proposing a round table of the best and most active forge minds.

In no particular order

fritz
sal
nexn
runner
zak
ender

>>>>>KON ARTIST<<<<<<<

I also want nasty to take part in this because of this thread (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160487), and will be PMing him; also status and whoever else has been forging really diligently but hasn't got a lot of attention.


What I propose is that we take the golden rules of halo that have been agreed upon in that thread, work together and create a map that has them all. Also make test versions of this map with some of the other weapons and options in discussion in that thread to really feel them out and give meaningful feedback on what changes can be made in later versions of mlg's maps, and once consensus has been reached, to take it to KC and Anakin for analysis.

Who's with me on this?
================================================== =====

1.As a group we would come to a general consensus of a map, republic style majority rule, but minority rights. So if you disagree with the group we will still actually try and implement your idea and see how effective or ineffective it is.

2.We would start forging the map, in general shifts, as in whoever wanted to take the task for forging on the map that day. Other individuals could work on new concepts and ideas for that map simultaneously in other rooms and if an epiphany is reached, jump over into the main forge room and share the idea the group had. This way the work load is divided, and time is saved by working on new concepts in one room while the actual forging is going on in another room.

3. The typical testing in the community, feedback and reworking.


GT list

Doublekill Guys -zak

ii s3m ii -Nasty

Itz TaLoS

Fritzster

That Blam n00b

iTs NeXn

status 5000

[Status]

Excellent idea, TDN.

I haven't forged in a while. But in that time I've thought up many ideas for maps/concepts that I would like to make.

However, I'm going on a short vacation with my girlfriend this weekend. So the soonest I can start forging will probably be tuesday ( 4/8 ), when I get back.

I think much of Onslaught's strength lies in its ramps (slopes, vertical gradients, whatever you want to call them). The ability to manuever along 3 axis(es?) at the same time is pretty much the pinnacle of BR combat.

Angles, angles, angles... that's what makes or breaks a map the most IMO. Statusphere has a lot of good shooting angles, but it's broken because too much jumping is required and there aren't enough wide surfaces to strafe on beside the floor.

So yeah. Let's forge some ****.

[That-DAM-n00b]

I think we need to first get everyone on board, try and find a time when we are all available and hash some **** out in this thread and then more online and just take it from there.

Glad you are on board.


Also, idea: this is another way to eliminate the infighting as we could just put created by "MLG forge consortium" or some official name like that, and you just know you are part of that group. That eliminates the name dropping, and competition for the limelight as the whole group will receive the attention.

[UnknOWNBAMF]

Good idea I wish you luck with getting this to work it could end in a result of some great maps. However who is going to do the forging? Because joint operations don't work out so well due to hosting. I don't know if you knew that or not. Nonetheless, good luck.On a side note I'm not really bothered by it but I am slightly offended, as I'm sure some others are, but don't call out the top forgers name-by-name. As some people (myself included) are very good at forging and know every tip and trick and special technique involved in the process and just because we haven't put out as many projects doesn't make us less qualified. This is why I didn't call out any top names in the petition.

[a22en]

I have to agree with all the competition for making the best map and being recognized for it people are forgeting that bungie put out a TON of decent maps and no great ones with H3. If the forge community can pool their resources and make one map that everyone loves and continually want to play on it won't be about the fame of making it but helping to save a game we all love to play.

[SaLoT]

I have to agree with all the competition for making the best map and being recognized for it people are forgeting that bungie put out a TON of decent maps and no great ones with H3. If the forge community can pool their resources and make one map that everyone loves and continually want to play on it won't be about the fame of making it but helping to save a game we all love to play.

Well like some never thought i never wanted any sort of fame. But onto the subject at hand.

I see this a great idea and i feel it could work if everyone works together. If you guys can make this happen then count me in. But with good forgers and great idea's you might still see bumping of the heads.

Also you forgot Nasty and Kon?.. they have great idea's and are dam good forgers....

[sendernode]

here's the harsh reality: the very best foundry maps thus far are beginner level maps. If you even call them maps.

Many forgers never touched map design until foundry was released - we were/are beginners at map design. Most of us are still beginners, including most/all of the big names.

Here is an average rating for the geometry of the maps in the forum: 0/10. 0 because the basic geometry is so flawed the map is unplayable.

So how do we make a playable competitive foundry map then? Learning the ABC's of map design would be a good start.

[OniChris]

Stockpile is the best map ever forged, ever.

I just wanted to jump in hear and say good luck. :]

[a22en]

here's the harsh reality: the very best foundry maps thus far are beginner level maps. If you even call them maps.

Many forgers never touched map design until foundry was released - we were/are beginners at map design. Most of us are still beginners, including most/all of the big names.

Here is an average rating for the geometry of the maps in the forum: 0/10. 0 because the basic geometry is so flawed the map is unplayable.

So how do we make a playable competitive foundry map then? Learning the ABC's of map design would be a good start.

Granted many forgers were brand new at this when they started but map design isn't something you need to go to college for. Alot of forgers have been playing halo for along time and know the intricasies of how maps work. Now granted I haven't seen a map that was hands down amazing yet, but onslaught is really good. Obviously it has a few issues but play testing and fixing can help alot of it. The design of onslaught is simple yet strong at the same time. When bungie go's to create a map they play test it for months and have a dedicated crew of testers running as many games as possible and giving feedback. Forgers in the community don't have anything like that

[a22en]

If we give the people who design this map they're talking about quality play testers and they're down to keep tweaking it then after a month we could have one of the best maps in the game hands down.

P.S. if you need someone to playtest a map for you i'm always down just F/R me

[zakboo]

I'm in I guess......... but forging with more than 2-3 people in a party sucks due to the fact that only the host can forge anything straight, but I guess people can get together and make some concepts, but as far as actually making a map it would have to be one person doing the majority of the work, also to continue that list of yours, BAMF, Kronic Smoke aka flix here at the forums, and I'm amazed you missed Kon Artist.

[Fritzster]

TDN:

I have read, read, read that thread, drank into the discussion that gives me, and should give any "creme del la creme" Forger, pure motivation. Nasty, and other's in the community, have a strong vision on what makes true competitive maps for Halo 3. I agree with them, Halo 3 maps are lacking, and when I say lacking I mean much more than simply saying more than the controversial "the maps suck" but fixing with what is in our control, to my point - In all respect to what has been discussed in what was really the best discussion I have ever seen on a Forum - Forge is an alternate and an opportunity just waiting for someone to figure out and do something about it.

It's that kind of leadership that really needs to expand in MLG. It is very early in Halo 3's lifespan if we haven't noticed, things are getting figured out all the time for the benefit of making gameplay/maps better. This community is great and can be better, I agree, leadership needs to be strong for this to actually happen I mind you. Some action needs to be taken and cooperation would need to be taken as habit among peers. I really am wondering what MLG's game testers' stances would be if MLG's own community produces what is being envisioned here. Should it all start in a forum there needs to be organization of research and events, but that is a little cluttered in just a forum... I'm going to close on my point here. Starting here is just the beginning.

The fame factor is nice and useful to some extend, but unnecessary, and needs to be forgotten because we practically know each other in this outspoken "small" community of "Forgers" who know their stuff. This is the competitive/hardcore minority and most of all the community that is most likely to produced quality maps/gametypes compared to quantity for "fast cash" ei BNet forums and others I will not mention IMO.

With that said I am in. MLG needs more custom maps. I will post in a bit, but to start is tough without any firm direction.

The guide there is building up, and learning the ABC's of map making is useful and understanding indeed. Being realistic this is a Drop & Drag program, however, with glitches involved. Forge has never been intended to make full blown maps that surpass Bungie's engineers and artists. That's like trying to make a feature silver screen film with Window's Movie maker. The resources are very limited as some may discover. Few maps already posted here are worthy of review from higher ups, I'd like to see that quality anywhere else on the internet, and not be harsh on calling these maps the absolute novice level, the reality is we all have a lot to learn, still. I'd love to jump aboard and help out as much I can, for me, probably making a website to expand on these forums in organization of research etc etc.

See you online.

[-NaStY-]

I'm alive!

Awesome idea, I'm definitely on board - I'd be honored to work along with these guys. I think if we worked together and combined our creativity, ingenuity and knowledge of competitive Halo, we could create a map that's significantly better than any Bungie map.

Also, this team could be great for working on Ghost Town and Blackout and getting them in working competitive order.

I'm excited :D

[sendernode]

Granted many forgers were brand new at this when they started but map design isn't something you need to go to college for. Alot of forgers have been playing halo for along time and know the intricasies of how maps work.

Playing versus designing are completely different departments. Many good players have tried to design simple competitive arena maps and failed miserably. Good player <> good map designer.


Now granted I haven't seen a map that was hands down amazing yet, but onslaught is really good. Obviously it has a few issues but play testing and fixing can help alot of it. The design of onslaught is simple yet strong at

Onslaught is a solid beginner level effort, but does not belong in a professional circuit.

[T3st1fy]

Why isn't salot on the list? Or am I missing something...
I mean he did co-create the only forge map used by mlg...

[-NaStY-]

And to start up the useful discussion and sharing of ideas:

1. The latest map I've been working on, I've been spending a bit more time on design and visual quality. While in many ways this is the exact mindset we've worked to avoid, I've found that it can produce some fantastic geometry ideas that you wouldn't of thought of otherwise. Also, it makes a foundry map much easier to swallow since it looks less ****ty.
2. Our first map should be modeled in the spirit of damnation. It 100% will have the best transfer of gameplay to Halo 3. We want to design this level with forge completely out of our minds, then use forge to make it come alive. If you sit in forge and build it from scratch, you become confined to the standards of forge and it kills your geometric creativity.

Visual Ideas:
- Barriers look like stone on one side, and a nice clean yellow on the flat side. When caught between two immovables, they themselves are immovable. Imo they are not taken advantage of nearly enough, as they can create interesting textures or nice clean surfaces (which are way too rare in Forge).

- Boxes look 1000 times better when only the light green side is showing. When possible we make all sides light green. I'll show you guys the map I've been working on so far, it looks much cleaner.

-Fence walls are your visual friend because you can put movable scenery behind them. The best use of this is putting wire spools under fence walls as a floor to make it feel like you're walking over a generator. Again, used in my newest map and it looks phenomenal.

-The top of window panels make great railings. If you have some to spare it creates a nice industrial feel when used properly (i.e. the solid bit is merged in to a wall so you only see the skinny railing part)

-The tips of teleporters glow on and off. By lining a hall with sender nodes but having only their tips sticking out of the walls, you can create some nice lighting

-Along the lighting side of things, power-ups can be fused as we all know. I personally think this would be a neat effect to put on the bottom of a floating platform. So you have some wall floating in the air or whatnot, and there's power-ups from beneath that make it look like they're jets suspending it there

Other Ideas:
-Death pits. I assume you guys know about them. If you don't - you can place a teleport receiver outside of the level (using save/quit), then make the walls of some "bottomless" pit narrow to 1 or 2 senders. Thus if you fall in to the hole, you're funneled in to the teleporters that send you to instant death. A cool gameplay dynamic that would be cool. One idea: put it near an OS, which is in the line of sight of an RL spawn. If they spawn near the same time, you could have some cool moments where the OS guy is invincible while picking up the OS, but gets pushed in to the pit by a well-timed rocket.

-As per the thread I started, +Plasma Rifles, -Mauler. Let's try the balance out while testing our map.

[-NaStY-]

Actually sendernode is remarkably on point. We have some great forgers here, but none of us have proved ourselves great at map design. Symmetrical arenas are great, but they are ultimately less epic than asymmetrical.

Also, another helpful hint:
Dumpsters can be pushed together such that their bottom face is about as flat as a box or wall. When pushed between two immovables they can add valuable height to a wall, and create an interesting visual effect by creating a black band around the room.

And a question to everyone for the map I'm working on:

Can anybody think of a good way to make a sarcophagus? I only have 4 window panels and 4 doors left.

Finally, what about Cadillac?

[RaZzO]

i have about 11 cousins who all play halo 3 with me we run lans about every day. we will be glad test maps out for anyone

[flix]

Im not very known on the forums and but im working on a map w/ Nexn,I just wanted to give my ideas of what would be nice to see and what i thihk works good.

Oval Maps
Im pretty disappointed oval maps arent being used but me and Nexn have been working on one and we have noticed a ocuple of things so let me list them.
-Corner to corner BR is a tad bit more consistent because the bullets have shorter travel time to reach its target
-if you setup the orignal Tower/Carbine Map setup w/ the oval you will see less flag caps going straight thorugh the middle.

Map Structure
-Multiple setup points at every main part of the map For Ex: Base/tower/Carbine
-Large Center to slow down gameplay/eliminate cross map BR to make it more thinking oriented instead of run and gun situations
-Walking room, No tight places or sharp coners

Weapon placements
-Rockets or sniper rifle on any foundry map most of the time does not work because the map is to small
-Plasma Rifles i believe would change the close range battles just like the BxR in H2
-Mauler works on foundry maps because it ups the Close range battles

[-Champloo-]

Dammy is definetly my first choice as well, Nasty. Thing is, Foundry is wayyy too small for it. I really think that only bi-levular(new word) maps will work correctly in Foundry.

Can we avoid incredibly cramped walkways? Everytime you walk somewhere it's through some tiny ass hallway.



I'd like to try and help as I've got plenty of ideas.

[-NaStY-]

Dammy is definetly my first choice as well, Nasty. Thing is, Foundry is wayyy too small for it. I really think that only bi-levular(new word) maps will work correctly in Foundry.

Can we avoid incredibly cramped walkways? Everytime you walk somewhere it's through some tiny ass hallway.



I'd like to try and help as I've got plenty of ideas.

Noooooo!

Haha, I love you but bilevular is exactly wrong. Don't be afraid to make levels tall, because you need winding paths of movement that go up and down and on top of themselves.

But regarding the no cramped walkways, I feel I mostly agree. I think what we really need to try is:

First just literally imagine the level as a city without streets - a whole bunch of buildings rising up, all different heights. Basically a bunch of shapes extruded different heights from the ground. Then, taking this, you carve paths through them using tunnels to channel the movement, and connect them with ramps. Done correctly, you end with damnation style geometry that allows the level to flow seamlessly together, creating the correct boundaries of motion through elevation. You can add (sparingly) catwalks to spice up a line of sight. For instance I think we can all agree that the most exciting angle in all of halo is looking up at camo area from any point of Red.

[T3st1fy]

Wow this is really making me want to forge... Time to go make a map to prove myself so that I too may join the round table!

[Terapax]

I think you guys have a great idea going and it's good to see people taking an initiative in the community.

I don't want to clutter up your thread but this seems like the place to ask...

Is there a place where I can find tips on forging? (besides bungie.net) I'm talking about things used in making maps like Ons and Stock. For instance, I had no idea you could "merge" items together opening up completely new forms of geometry. If I could be pointed toward some type of tutorial or something similiar that'd be great.

Good luck to everyone and hopefully we get some great results out of this.

[-NaStY-]

Because I'm bored and hyper, a forge vocab sheet and list of acronyms to ease discussion. Obviously open for revision if you guys have some changes you think should be made to the rhetoric.



Forge Dictionary
Immovable - Boxes, walls, power-ups, weapon-holders, etc.
Movable - Crates, propane tanks, etc.

Save and Quit (S&Q) - Saving the level while still holding an obect, then quitting and restarting to place the objects spawn exactly where you were holding it.

Drop spawn - Placing an object (usually weapon) spawn in the air so that it is immediately disturbed when spawning, creating Halo 1 style timing.

Interlock - Using "Spawn at start: No" to put two immovables within each other

Geo-glitch - Using "Spawn at start: No" to push an immovable in to the boundaries of the level.

Door-glitch - Using the door's strange collision properties to push an immovable in to the boundaries of the level

Lock - Keep a movable object still by compressing it between two immovables

Budget Glitched (BG'd) - Placing all objects and setting runtime maxs to max before creating level to allow use of all objects allotted in the palette.


SB - Single Box
DB - Double Box
SBO - Single Box Open
DBO - Double Box Open
SW - Single Wall
DW - Double Wall
WC - Wall Corner
WP - Window Panel
WH - Weapon Holder
GL - Grav Lift
MC - Man Cannon
FW - Fence Wall
FB - Fence Box


Maybe this will be superfluous and a waste of time, but I feel like it might help speed up forge forum conversation and make individual critique more precise and faster. Also, if used a lot, it will inspire newer forgers to go figure out what the hell it all means, thereby accidentally being forced to learn techniques they love to ask about without searching ("How'd you get two boxes together?!").

[-NaStY-]

Haha sorry above poster, that last bit wasn't directed at you I hadn't seen your post. PM me with any questions you have I can tell you pretty much anything you need to know :)

[DrNas]

http://www.forgehub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2615&highlight=fordry

hi guys, i just saw this thread and i think that my map has some pretty good ideas, i think it might help you out alittle. people told me that the bases are good, so you can look at it if you want, just for some ideas, i think u guys might like it.

cant wait to see the map you guys come up with.

[khood1]

K Hood1 and UndoingChales have created amazing maps [TS, CTF, INF, ect.] Add us to play some of their maps. We know all the secrets, and even more. An example found by us is the "Monkey Bars". Ask us about it! We also know the very difficult infinate money glitch. Very good addon to many maps. THEY SHOULD BE IN THE ROUND TABLE!! {I'm K Hood1}

[-Champloo-]

Noooooo!

Haha, I love you but bilevular is exactly wrong. Don't be afraid to make levels tall, because you need winding paths of movement that go up and down and on top of themselves.

But regarding the no cramped walkways, I feel I mostly agree. I think what we really need to try is:

First just literally imagine the level as a city without streets - a whole bunch of buildings rising up, all different heights. Basically a bunch of shapes extruded different heights from the ground. Then, taking this, you carve paths through them using tunnels to channel the movement, and connect them with ramps. Done correctly, you end with damnation style geometry that allows the level to flow seamlessly together, creating the correct boundaries of motion through elevation. You can add (sparingly) catwalks to spice up a line of sight. For instance I think we can all agree that the most exciting angle in all of halo is looking up at camo area from any point of Red.
I certainly agree that multi-levular maps are amazing, but I don't think they work in Foundry. Every map I've played with 3 levels seems very strange at the 3rd level, almost like there's no room to jump.

Btw, do you think we could make maps specific to higher gravity so people can't jump as high? By designing our maps around higher gravity we wouldn't have the problem of changing gravity on Bungie's maps. I bring this up because I hate feeling like I'm on the moon whilst playing Halo. MC is 7 foot, 1000+ pounds... he doesn't need the extra 7 feet of jumping. lol

Also, I would like to petition that Single Box Open be changed to Single Open Box, aka SOB.

[-NaStY-]

I certainly agree that multi-levular maps are amazing, but I don't think they work in Foundry. Every map I've played with 3 levels seems very strange at the 3rd level, almost like there's no room to jump.

Btw, do you think we could make maps specific to higher gravity so people can't jump as high? By designing our maps around higher gravity we wouldn't have the problem of changing gravity on Bungie's maps. I bring this up because I hate feeling like I'm on the moon whilst playing Halo. MC is 7 foot, 1000+ pounds... he doesn't need the extra 7 feet of jumping. lol

You're thinking about trying 125% grav settings? Worth a shot, but it would be a hell of a lot of work just to test one setting. Still, might be neat.

Though I will say this: if you look at any great Halo 1 map (or 2 for that matter), you never HAVE to jump to get anywhere - the maps seem to derive their beautiful layout by creating these really winding ramps upwards that interact well. Exceptions are Rocket spawn on chilly, above shotguns on damnation, and sniper on Hang 'em. These are power points (either open with a power-up spawn, or very powerful without a p-up) and now that I think about it, perhaps we can think about that for future map design. Anyhow, point being that many maps' jumps are just a "coincidence" so to speak, and aren't designed specifically around being able to jump different places. Big exception might be guardian where the level would interact totally differently sans jumps.

But then, Guardian sucks. So go figure.


LOL @ SOB.

Regarding 3 level maps, when you reach a certain height you bounce off the ceiling. I agree this is weird. But you can build a level that is 2 boxes and 1 barrier (length) high without reaching that height - with I-locking that's more than enough to create 4 distinct levels. Ground, top of box 1, top of box 2, top of barrier level. And of course since barriers are a bit shorter than boxes, you could sort of "even out" that different between each level so that each one is a bit shorter than a box, bit taller than a barrier. Plus don't forget intermediate ramps and levels that span, say, from halfway up level 1 to halfway up level 2. It doesn't have to move up in solid box length increments all the way around.

[Dirty.]

I think this is an absolutely great idea, hopefully you guys can pull off some sick ****.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Good idea I wish you luck with getting this to work it could end in a result of some great maps. However who is going to do the forging? Because joint operations don't work out so well due to hosting. I don't know if you knew that or not. Nonetheless, good luck.On a side note I'm not really bothered by it but I am slightly offended, as I'm sure some others are, but don't call out the top forgers name-by-name. As some people (myself included) are very good at forging and know every tip and trick and special technique involved in the process and just because we haven't put out as many projects doesn't make us less qualified. This is why I didn't call out any top names in the petition.


Try reading the WHOLE POST next time


also status and whoever else has been forging really diligently but hasn't got a lot of attention.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Well like some never thought i never wanted any sort of fame. But onto the subject at hand.

I see this a great idea and i feel it could work if everyone works together. If you guys can make this happen then count me in. But with good forgers and great idea's you might still see bumping of the heads.

Also you forgot Nasty and Kon?.. they have great idea's and are dam good forgers....


I did mention nasty directly, and I PM'd him kon artist I forgot, but I do have embezzlement. He's included in the statment "diligent forgers who haven't got a lot of attention"

[That-DAM-n00b]

I'm in I guess......... but forging with more than 2-3 people in a party sucks due to the fact that only the host can forge anything straight, but I guess people can get together and make some concepts, but as far as actually making a map it would have to be one person doing the majority of the work, also to continue that list of yours, BAMF, Kronic Smoke aka flix here at the forums, and I'm amazed you missed Kon Artist.


I think what would be done, is

1.As a group we would come to a general consensus of a map, republic style majority rule, but minority rights. So if you disagree with the group we will still actually try and implement your idea and see how effective or ineffective it is.

2.We would start forging the map, in general shifts, as in whoever wanted to take the task for forging on the map that day. Other individuals could work on new concepts and ideas for that map simultaneously in other rooms and if an epiphany is reached, jump over into the main forge room and share the idea the group had. This way the work load is divided, and time is saved by working on new concepts in one room while the actual forging is going on in another room.

3. The typical testing in the community, feedback and reworking.

[-NaStY-]

I think what would be done, is

1.As a group we would come to a general consensus of a map, republic style majority rule, but minority rights. So if you disagree with the group we will still actually try and implement your idea and see how effective or ineffective it is.

2.We would start forging the map, in general shifts, as in whoever wanted to take the task for forging on the map that day. Other individuals could work on new concepts and ideas for that map simultaneously in other rooms and if an epiphany is reached, jump over into the main forge room and share the idea the group had. This way the work load is divided, and time is saved by working on new concepts in one room while the actual forging is going on in another room.

3. The typical testing in the community, feedback and reworking.

That sounds so fun. I just like the idea of having a whole design team, and having one person join the party and be like "Guys, Fritz and I just came up with a new idea for bridge 2 ..."

[That-DAM-n00b]

Actually sendernode is remarkably on point. We have some great forgers here, but none of us have proved ourselves great at map design. Symmetrical arenas are great, but they are ultimately less epic than asymmetrical.

Also, another helpful hint:
Dumpsters can be pushed together such that their bottom face is about as flat as a box or wall. When pushed between two immovables they can add valuable height to a wall, and create an interesting visual effect by creating a black band around the room.

And a question to everyone for the map I'm working on:

Can anybody think of a good way to make a sarcophagus? I only have 4 window panels and 4 doors left.

Finally, what about Cadillac?


Everyone I didn't mention who is a diligent forger is welcome at the table.

Also I think I know how rocket room could be done, with a fence box geoglitched into the ground.

[-NaStY-]

Everyone I didn't mention who is a diligent forger is welcome at the table.

Also I think I know how rocket room could be done, with a fence box geoglitched into the ground.

Hrmm? What do you mean by rocket room?

[flix]

Truly IMO after i read some of the post of peoples ideas,the only way this would work is if you take somthing like onslaught and mess with it to be mlg worthy and fix the problem(For Example:Run and gun situations) because with everyones diff. ideas people will bump heads sooner or later because one forger thinks diffrent than the other.

[CuteBoy69]

I will out BR everyone in foreging.

[Adoggman]

Excellent idea, TDN.

I haven't forged in a while. But in that time I've thought up many ideas for maps/concepts that I would like to make.

However, I'm going on a short vacation with my girlfriend this weekend. So the soonest I can start forging will probably be tuesday ( 4/8 ), when I get back.

I think much of Onslaught's strength lies in its ramps (slopes, vertical gradients, whatever you want to call them). The ability to manuever along 3 axis(es?) at the same time is pretty much the pinnacle of BR combat.

Angles, angles, angles... that's what makes or breaks a map the most IMO. Statusphere has a lot of good shooting angles, but it's broken because too much jumping is required and there aren't enough wide surfaces to strafe on beside the floor.

So yeah. Let's forge some ****.

fyi, its axes (ax-EEs)

[Digity]

What up with Kon Artist and Cadillac???

Kon Artist is probably the most under rated forger out there, probably because he makes 2v2 maps, doesnt matter though, hommie has some skills. If you haven't already, go download some of his maps, play them, then go into forge and look at how he sets up the spawn system, much more complex and advance then any other forged spawn system out there.

[UnknOWNBAMF]

Try reading the WHOLE POST next time
I'm pretty sure I did. And uh the fact still remains that there are names singled out, and listed. That's what I was pointing out. Try UNDERSTANDING my post next time.

[-Ender-]

I seriously doubt forging with more than 3 people will ever be efficient but what I do think we should be doing is sharing our ideas with eachother and giving eachother advice. You wouldn't have to let them change anything, but go into eachothers' parties whilst Forging and throw out a few suggestions on what you think should be fixed, added, removed, etc.

Because everyone has a different idea of what a map should be like, we can compromise better by simply adapting your own style to someone else's idea than if we argue about whether a bridge should be right side up or upside down. lol So yeah, I suggest we stick with our own maps, just be more open to letting others help you. And maybe this is just one of those things I am defiant about, but I really don't think there should be any more maps without wall glitched sides.

P.S. One of the maps I'm creating now is circular, but I can't wall glitch boxes diagonally to save my life. If there is some way to do so but still keeping it flat, that'd be great. Not a big deal, but the other option is to have a small jut outward then use walls to block off the corner.

[-Champloo-]

I'm thinking of making a silver gt deemed "MLG Forge Crew", this way we can have all the forgers in quick contact with one another.

[-Ender-]

If you do, make it zzzzz MLG Forge Crew so it's always at the bottom of our lists and can be found easily. I remember when I had the MLG customs tag added, it always took forever to search through the offline people to find it.

[Master Dictator]

good luck gettin KC to read it he doesnt really do much ne more.

[Master Dictator]

ill join hte forge crew btw

[ZoroSeerus]

If most of you are by computers try larger aim sessions/irc sessions while forging maybe? Also If you have yo try geo/door glitching the bottom floor into the ground, or maybe just the bases or just the middle such as in Amplified.

Edit:Probably useless but what about turning OFF the ability to go inside/use vehicles and using them as scenery/jumps?

[Dave_C0ulier]

grate idea, i just dont think it will work people just dont listen to one another an for the guy that said you cant make a good map well thats just dumb i mean mlg was using two so obviously they can be made

[runner ai]

Sorry guys i cant help out! I've got university finals comming up so i will be away for awhile. I may come out with the odd update etc but i wont do any serious forging until june. :-(

[billmoney]

that's the worst idea ive ever heard in my entire life. no1 is going to agree on nething.

[theeckounltd]

Good idea I wish you luck with getting this to work it could end in a result of some great maps. However who is going to do the forging? Because joint operations don't work out so well due to hosting. I don't know if you knew that or not. Nonetheless, good luck.On a side note I'm not really bothered by it but I am slightly offended, as I'm sure some others are, but don't call out the top forgers name-by-name. As some people (myself included) are very good at forging and know every tip and trick and special technique involved in the process and just because we haven't put out as many projects doesn't make us less qualified. This is why I didn't call out any top names in the petition.
What Bamf said. I haven't put much out there, but I am amazing at forge when I'm patient. I'd definitely be interested in helping you guys give some judgment and criticism, but I can't say I'd be on enough to forge with you guys. Normally I would, but between my new GF, Driver's Ed and just school in general, I can't get on.

I think this is a really good idea, I just don't see a 8-men forging at the same time kind of thing going on.

Another idea is what I know people do in Photoshop. You start out with a canvas, and each person takes 30 min to an hour and adds something, sends it to the next person. Then they add something. Eventually something good comes out of it.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Truly IMO after i read some of the post of peoples ideas,the only way this would work is if you take somthing like onslaught and mess with it to be mlg worthy and fix the problem(For Example:Run and gun situations) because with everyones diff. ideas people will bump heads sooner or later because one forger thinks diffrent than the other.


read my post about majority decision but minority right, we will still try it out, and make a decision.

[That-DAM-n00b]

What Bamf said. I haven't put much out there, but I am amazing at forge when I'm patient. I'd definitely be interested in helping you guys give some judgment and criticism, but I can't say I'd be on enough to forge with you guys. Normally I would, but between my new GF, Driver's Ed and just school in general, I can't get on.

I think this is a really good idea, I just don't see a 8-men forging at the same time kind of thing going on.

Another idea is what I know people do in Photoshop. You start out with a canvas, and each person takes 30 min to an hour and adds something, sends it to the next person. Then they add something. Eventually something good comes out of it.


Some people aren't very good at reading the entire first post before giving their imput.

[MumboJumbo]

ok i read all six pages and now i will break it down.

First off im very creative and smart but im the worst forger ever i have no patiance when things bump each other and never line up for me.

Ideas
1. Duplex, i saw you guys taling about multi levels and how they create problems once u get too high, u could do a duplex system where a the second floor can be seen and shot at from the first and third floor, hard to explain hopefully you guys know what a duplex is.

2. Divide into teams if there are 6 of u do like teams of 3 and then build basic maps and then compare ideas and give each other ideas cause foundry is small and with 6 people all trying to get the same amount of input it might not work but with two maps it would lead to a stronger map and better for you guys overall

3. Incorparate the sword, this is the staple weapon of halo no more maulers or shotties hook it up with a sword.

4. no Rocks more snipes, while rockets are a great power weapon they dont lead to the same kind of great gameplay and skill that a sniper takes.

5. No AC no Os power ups are good but i think they would be too powerfull for any foundry size map

6. Oddball this is something that not everyone would agree with me on but oddball is a great gametype and guardian doesnt do it justice.

7.Spawns i can honestly say onslaught is my favorite map it is pure greatness except for the spawn sometimes u can end up spawning in a nade or behind 3 guys or in almost and random spot, sometimes on team slayer i feel like im playing ffa it get that crazy.

8. If you doing bases like onslaught or any type of base map, make it possible to go from one base to top mid very easy the more ways to move about the map the more skill it takes and more skill = more mlg

PCE

[That-DAM-n00b]

ok i read all six pages and now i will break it down.

First off im very creative and smart but im the worst forger ever i have no patiance when things bump each other and never line up for me.

Ideas
1. Duplex, i saw you guys taling about multi levels and how they create problems once u get too high, u could do a duplex system where a the second floor can be seen and shot at from the first and third floor, hard to explain hopefully you guys know what a duplex is.

2. Divide into teams if there are 6 of u do like teams of 3 and then build basic maps and then compare ideas and give each other ideas cause foundry is small and with 6 people all trying to get the same amount of input it might not work but with two maps it would lead to a stronger map and better for you guys overall

3. Incorparate the sword, this is the staple weapon of halo no more maulers or shotties hook it up with a sword.

4. no Rocks more snipes, while rockets are a great power weapon they dont lead to the same kind of great gameplay and skill that a sniper takes.

5. No AC no Os power ups are good but i think they would be too powerfull for any foundry size map

6. Oddball this is something that not everyone would agree with me on but oddball is a great gametype and guardian doesnt do it justice.

7.Spawns i can honestly say onslaught is my favorite map it is pure greatness except for the spawn sometimes u can end up spawning in a nade or behind 3 guys or in almost and random spot, sometimes on team slayer i feel like im playing ffa it get that crazy.

8. If you doing bases like onslaught or any type of base map, make it possible to go from one base to top mid very easy the more ways to move about the map the more skill it takes and more skill = more mlg

PCE


You may have missed my post on how I figured the best and most efficient way to divide up work would be.

[ll AchilleZ ll]

Hey man I'm most definately interested. I can only offer Time, Devotion, Creativity, and Imagination along with Cooperativeness. Gimme a shout when you wanna try something because I'm alwasy up for Forge.

AIM => VGFreaK17
GT => AcHiLLeZ DuH

[Status]

I really like Nasty's concept of thinking about a map as a bunch of tall buildings and then "carving out" tunnels and what not to come up with ideas for maps that would support fluid, dynamic movement.

I'll definitely be thinking about this and other map ideas during my vacation this weekend. lol

Come tuesday or wednesday, I'll be down to start tossing around ideas or join up any forge crews that have already started.

[tigaer]

I'm in.
Whos gonna start though?
I got a couple map ideas I could show you guys.

[Cadillac]

Well I appreciate you guys throwing my name out there. Ive been around but im just really busy right now with work and school.

I've also kinda taken a break because I wanted to see what the new maps were before I wasted my time making a certain style of map. I was going to attempt something kinda like midship but I didnt want to go there because I thought the new map was going to be midship.

So when school ends and I get some time ill be doing a lot more forging hopefully.

[That-DAM-n00b]

It's not just about the dedicated and best builders, it's about the people with the ideas too.

[-NaStY-]

We should post gt's so we can start working on this now.

Me = ii s3m ii

Send me an FR.

[zakboo]

Most know already but my GT is Doublekill Guys

[That-DAM-n00b]

I'll keep the front page updated with gamer tags.

[flix]

AMPLIFIED.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Sorry guys i cant help out! I've got university finals comming up so i will be away for awhile. I may come out with the odd update etc but i wont do any serious forging until june. :-(


Are you still willing to be involved as far as tossing around ideas, and reviewing maps?

[tigaer]

I have a concept for a map, I just dont have the time to make it right now.
So, if anybody wants to start, go ahead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/tigaer/Map1.jpg
The map would have the feel of the pit with multiple elevations in the floor.

The first floor (the pit,) would be foundrys floor.
Second level would be a half box high (either made out of geo'd boxes or just bridges.)
Third level would be a full box high, then the forth would be a box and a half in height.

And my gamertag is, ITS NEXN. Not ITS NEXEN haha.

[Fritzster]

What evar NeXen, that's a nice spiffy prototype you got there NeXen, bottom middle as a question.

kidding bro, make more!

[zakboo]

what did u use to make that nexn? It would be nice if us "Top Forgers" could get together and make a few good concepts that we all like, rather than having to do it all in forge. Maybe get bout 5-6 different designs we all like and forge them in smaller groups, but continue to get feedback from one another on the best ways to build them with what we have. The challenge will be to create something like that with the small list of items we have to use. I would love to see some more concepts like that. Good work:)

[tigaer]

what did u use to make that nexn? It would be nice if us "Top Forgers" could get together and make a few good concepts that we all like, rather than having to do it all in forge. Maybe get bout 5-6 different designs we all like and forge them in smaller groups, but continue to get feedback from one another on the best ways to build them with what we have. The challenge will be to create something like that with the small list of items we have to use. I would love to see some more concepts like that. Good work:)

http://www.sketchup.com/

[Master Dictator]

I havent read any other posts, but I thnk we should break up into liek squads. Each one getting a certain gametype and haveing to build a map as a group for that 1 gametype. Then we take all of our maps and incorporate them so all our Gametypes fit together. for instance Onslaught would be in the CTF catagory. And Apotheosize(my map) would be Team Slayer. Even though they are similar I built my map for Team slayer, CTF just seems to work on it.

[That-DAM-n00b]

That concept design looks really good, and that google program could really help us out. I think because nex has come forward with that first concept design, we should run with it as the first map the group does.


We also need to agree on a name


some options. Make sure they can fit into a gamertag so that we can use it to network people and as a nexus point to pass out maps, that way no ones name is ever attached to any map.

MLG Forge Group

ummmm

throw some other ideas out there if you have them.

[-NaStY-]

MLG Forge Team

No offense to Nexn, and major props for finding sketchup, but I don't think that should be our first map. It embodies everything that I've been trying to move people away from. Except for the bridge, there is no where where you're under a position you could also stand. It's all pretty 2D. And most of all, it's a 2 base symmetrical map. Nice work on getting something together, but I just don't think it's quite the caliber of map that everyone should be working on.

I'm gonna DL sketchup and put together a model of the map I've been working on / thinking about.

[That-DAM-n00b]

MLG Forge Team

No offense to Nexn, and major props for finding sketchup, but I don't think that should be our first map. It embodies everything that I've been trying to move people away from. Except for the bridge, there is no where where you're under a position you could also stand. It's all pretty 2D. And most of all, it's a 2 base symmetrical map. Nice work on getting something together, but I just don't think it's quite the caliber of map that everyone should be working on.

I'm gonna DL sketchup and put together a model of the map I've been working on / thinking about.


Try and take the basic concept of it and use that design prog he posted a link to, and see if you can tweak it with what you are talking about.

[tigaer]

MLG Forge Team

No offense to Nexn, and major props for finding sketchup, but I don't think that should be our first map. It embodies everything that I've been trying to move people away from. Except for the bridge, there is no where where you're under a position you could also stand. It's all pretty 2D. And most of all, it's a 2 base symmetrical map. Nice work on getting something together, but I just don't think it's quite the caliber of map that everyone should be working on.

I'm gonna DL sketchup and put together a model of the map I've been working on / thinking about.

Yeah, none taken.
The idea with the concept map is to make another map that plays like the pit on CTF, but smaller.

That was just a concept, made in 20 mins. Just wanted to get it out there.

I have a couple more concepts that I might throw together, but idk.

[tigaer]

Here's a little something I made to show off the map I'm working on by myself called Quarantine.

I just made one of the bases, but it'll be a mirror image on the other side of the middle wall.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/tigaer/QuarantineCP.jpg

In the picture, it shows the first and second levels of the map.

Gonna be made mainly for CTF, maybe Oddball. Right now, its about a forth done. I'll post it on the forums when im finished.

[zakboo]

Wow nice work nexn, I'm gonna have to try out that sketchup program myself....... hopefully its easy

[That-DAM-n00b]

I have a feeling that sketchup prog is going to become a very powerful tool for the team.


Anyone else have any idea's for our group name?

so far we have


MLG Forge Team

MLG Forge Group

I'd like to know the rest of your votes and imput if other names appeal to you.


Unless someone comes up with something better MLG Forge Team, is my favorite.

[Master Dictator]

FORGE TEAM VENTURE GO!!!!!

[-NaStY-]

Nexn: Your 2nd model is 10000000 times sexier / cooler. Does it even have to have another side? Looks great the way it is.

On the way: My own level in sketchup, as soon as I can get some screenies. (I have no PS on this computer so its kind of annoying).

[tigaer]

Nexn: Your 2nd model is 10000000 times sexier / cooler. Does it even have to have another side? Looks great the way it is.

On the way: My own level in sketchup, as soon as I can get some screenies. (I have no PS on this computer so its kind of annoying).

Hah thanks, but its a CTF map, so its gotta be symmetrical.

[-NaStY-]

These first two were just done in paint as concepts.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8553/cryptech1ew2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The northern area of this overhead is actually different than the model I ended up with in sketchup - don't be alarmed.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/679/cryptech2zo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Don't mind my horrible sketchup skills :D
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5193/cryptechscreen1ix3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7237/cryptechscreen2ic7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7271/cryptechscreen3ar8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)





Also:

MLG Design
MLG Forge Crew

[UnknOWNBAMF]

Send me this sketchup design via my email: I will PM it to you I want to further look at this.

[-NaStY-]

Send me this sketchup design via my email: I will PM it to you I want to further look at this.

What's your email?

[That-DAM-n00b]

I like how that looks nasty. A LOT. What does everyone else think?

[-ImplosioN-]

That sketchup program looks EPIC.

Here's a little bit of my opinion of maps in general:I think people get the wrong idea about map geometry. Mainly excessive cover. I don't alot think cover has been a good thing for Halo, only a bad thing. Now get me straight, I don't like being in the middle of an open field shooting each other, but think of H:CE. There wasn't always a pillar to hide behind or a box to find shelter near, in H:CE, the majority of cover was actual map geometry, such as walls, structures and the general map layout. I think adding excess cover to maps is based off of bungie's own map design, which was built to support a multitude of close range weapons. In H:CE you started off with a semi good close range weapon, and a great medium - long range weapon, and the maps were built around this concept. Skip forward to H3, and we have so many random mazes of walls and cramped spaces, and the weapons support this. So what should we as MLG be considering while building our maps? Think weapons first, and build the map around the weapons.

Imagine in your mind what kind of situations you want to happen on this map, think what kinds of weapons would allow those situations to happen often and functionally, and build the map geometry around it. Don't try to build a cool looking map, and try to think how the weapons would fit into the geometry, do it the other way around. And don't be afraid of a power weapon being too powerful, make it hard to get. If it's a very powerful weapon, you can bet both teams will fight over it. you can't just give the players a suggestion to go to certain spots on the map (to create flow), you have to make it a requirement. either go here, or you lose a huge advantage.

yeah it's almost 4 in the morning as i'm typing this so my mind is wandering, i'm basically nodding in and out of conciensness as i type this, so sorry if my post is seemingly random in spots and not well structured. i think i have a pretty good idea of how to create true incentive to flow around a map but i'm soooo tired right now i can't barely remember what i've typed so far, but i don't want to think i wasted my time typing this.

[U_Dominate_U]

That sketchup program looks EPIC.

Here's a little bit of my opinion of maps in general:I think people get the wrong idea about map geometry. Mainly excessive cover. I don't alot think cover has been a good thing for Halo, only a bad thing. Now get me straight, I don't like being in the middle of an open field shooting each other, but think of H:CE. There wasn't always a pillar to hide behind or a box to find shelter near, in H:CE, the majority of cover was actual map geometry, such as walls, structures and the general map layout. I think adding excess cover to maps is based off of bungie's own map design, which was built to support a multitude of close range weapons. In H:CE you started off with a semi good close range weapon, and a great medium - long range weapon, and the maps were built around this concept. Skip forward to H3, and we have so many random mazes of walls and cramped spaces, and the weapons support this. So what should we as MLG be considering while building our maps? Think weapons first, and build the map around the weapons.

Imagine in your mind what kind of situations you want to happen on this map, think what kinds of weapons would allow those situations to happen often and functionally, and build the map geometry around it. Don't try to build a cool looking map, and try to think how the weapons would fit into the geometry, do it the other way around. And don't be afraid of a power weapon being too powerful, make it hard to get. If it's a very powerful weapon, you can bet both teams will fight over it. you can't just give the players a suggestion to go to certain spots on the map (to create flow), you have to make it a requirement. either go here, or you lose a huge advantage.

yeah it's almost 4 in the morning as i'm typing this so my mind is wandering, i'm basically nodding in and out of conciensness as i type this, so sorry if my post is seemingly random in spots and not well structured. i think i have a pretty good idea of how to create true incentive to flow around a map but i'm soooo tired right now i can't barely remember what i've typed so far, but i don't want to think i wasted my time typing this.
Implode, I totally agree with you. What people dont seem to be getting is that a thin wall where you can hide behind isnt what makes a map ''strategic''. It just makes it frustrating for someone that needs one shot to kill you when you run around the corner of such a wall, then toss out a nade and give that guy a headshot for the kill(when he saw you much earlier).

Does Construct have mazes of thin walls? No, it's just solid structures in which players wander, and to be honest, that works out the best.

[Master Dictator]

im getting into this ****...one day

[Dutycalls]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7237/cryptechscreen2ic7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
is it me or does the right half kind of look like hang 'em high??

i love this idea TDN. great work.

[Andz]

I've been downloading and testing a hell of a lot of people's maps at the moment.

Some of my favourites have been Amplified, Onslaught, Stockpile, Embezzlement, Forsaken, Arena.

But all of the maps seem so similar!

What you need:

1. Bases taht players can spawn under safely. A good map I saw (Kon Artists) has a hole in the base which players can use a crate to jump up like Beaver Creek - GREAT IDEA!

2. Ramps round the edge - like Onslaught and Embezzlement and Forsaken.

and in my opinion:

3. A DECENT MIDDLE STRUCTURE!!!!!

Alot of players fill the middle of their map with a pointless bloody edifice to their forging ability. They totally forget functionality in the middle of the map. They place this well glitched, perfectly smooth statue to themselves rather than looking at functionality. My advice would be Simple works best.

Look at Wizard and Midship! They had such a brilliant middle ground that no one has yet to try and forge.

It has to be:

a) A fair amount of cover that can be used to hide behind from 1 angle, but enables you to be shot in the back from another angle.
b) dominant view of the entire map
c) profitable to get up there - either power up (Wizard) or Weapon (Midship)
d) not too large that the flag has to go round it or that is blocks off the maps view from base to base.

Just my ideas from playtesting the rest of your maps to death :)

[-NaStY-]

That sketchup program looks EPIC.

Here's a little bit of my opinion of maps in general:I think people get the wrong idea about map geometry. Mainly excessive cover. I don't alot think cover has been a good thing for Halo, only a bad thing. Now get me straight, I don't like being in the middle of an open field shooting each other, but think of H:CE. There wasn't always a pillar to hide behind or a box to find shelter near, in H:CE, the majority of cover was actual map geometry, such as walls, structures and the general map layout. I think adding excess cover to maps is based off of bungie's own map design, which was built to support a multitude of close range weapons. In H:CE you started off with a semi good close range weapon, and a great medium - long range weapon, and the maps were built around this concept. Skip forward to H3, and we have so many random mazes of walls and cramped spaces, and the weapons support this. So what should we as MLG be considering while building our maps? Think weapons first, and build the map around the weapons.

Imagine in your mind what kind of situations you want to happen on this map, think what kinds of weapons would allow those situations to happen often and functionally, and build the map geometry around it. Don't try to build a cool looking map, and try to think how the weapons would fit into the geometry, do it the other way around. And don't be afraid of a power weapon being too powerful, make it hard to get. If it's a very powerful weapon, you can bet both teams will fight over it. you can't just give the players a suggestion to go to certain spots on the map (to create flow), you have to make it a requirement. either go here, or you lose a huge advantage.

yeah it's almost 4 in the morning as i'm typing this so my mind is wandering, i'm basically nodding in and out of conciensness as i type this, so sorry if my post is seemingly random in spots and not well structured. i think i have a pretty good idea of how to create true incentive to flow around a map but i'm soooo tired right now i can't barely remember what i've typed so far, but i don't want to think i wasted my time typing this.

Excellent post, exactly what I've been trying to tell people. Strategically interesting battles and cover come from geometry and elevation, not randomly placed walls. That's the problem with all the maps people make right now - it's an open space with "stuff" in the way. If you want to cut off lines of sight and make the map take longer to traverse, then put a big walkway there, snake it around to the floor and give people a reason to go up there.

[Teapot]

Right now I'm only looking forward to nasty's work. Too many two base variations going on. I've seen remakes of Prisoner and Rat Race, but they are just too sloppy. So I'm really looking forward to an original map that doesn't consist of two bases. Don't get me wrong though, what you guys are doing is great and who knows. Maybe another map can get picked up.

[Mephisto]

Excellent post, exactly what I've been trying to tell people. Strategically interesting battles and cover come from geometry and elevation, not randomly placed walls. That's the problem with all the maps people make right now - it's an open space with "stuff" in the way. If you want to cut off lines of sight and make the map take longer to traverse, then put a big walkway there, snake it around to the floor and give people a reason to go up there.
i think the three of us should work together. we could bang out an awsome map real quick.

[UnknOWNBAMF]

Excellent post, exactly what I've been trying to tell people. Strategically interesting battles and cover come from geometry and elevation, not randomly placed walls. That's the problem with all the maps people make right now - it's an open space with "stuff" in the way. If you want to cut off lines of sight and make the map take longer to traverse, then put a big walkway there, snake it around to the floor and give people a reason to go up there.

I mostly agree with you here. But after taking a look at your sketchup (which is pretty good man good job) I think that the rising and lowering elevations are crazy problems because of budget and materials. Really that is what's holding 40% of that theory down.

[-NaStY-]

I mostly agree with you here. But after taking a look at your sketchup (which is pretty good man good job) I think that the rising and lowering elevations are crazy problems because of budget and materials. Really that is what's holding 40% of that theory down.

I've already got about 60% of the map made with a beautiful look. :)

[Russtopher]

I've already got about 60% of the map made with a beautiful look. :)
You know a screen shot never hurt anyone. :P

[tigaer]

These first two were just done in paint as concepts.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8553/cryptech1ew2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The northern area of this overhead is actually different than the model I ended up with in sketchup - don't be alarmed.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/679/cryptech2zo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Don't mind my horrible sketchup skills :D
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5193/cryptechscreen1ix3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7237/cryptechscreen2ic7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7271/cryptechscreen3ar8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)





Also:

MLG Design
MLG Forge Crew

Looks amazing, but how are you going to make that?
And big enough for 4v4..

I can make some sick asymmetrical maps but it would be impossible to build in foundry.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Nasty we'd really like it if you shared that map in progress with all of us, I know I'd like to take a first hand look at it.

[-NaStY-]

Nasty we'd really like it if you shared that map in progress with all of us, I know I'd like to take a first hand look at it.

I showed it to zak and fritzster already. It's still far from finished, but the areas I do have are looking good. I'll post a screenshot when I get some time.

[Status]

Just got back from vacation.

Very nice concepts from everybody who've made them so far.
I'm definitely downloading and learning that sketchup program. Great find.
I like the name "MLG Forge Team" the best.
I haven't gotten around to reading implode's post yet, but I will soon.

Edit: Read implode's epic post. Great ideas all around. Made me realize I built Statusphere to look cool with the hopes of it playing well. I already knew this to an extent, but this post (and others by Nasty, etc...) have really helped me with my intent within the MLG forging project.

[Fritzster]

I showed it to zak and fritzster already. It's still far from finished, but the areas I do have are looking good. I'll post a screenshot when I get some time.
The first floor looked good, the ramp wrap-around looked good as well, hard to complain when I saw it when it was about 10% done. If you can figure out how to limit yourself with $700 with your asymmetric design with all the ins and outs and long ramps like dammy, then no doubt will be a good map to look forward to.

[Fritzster]

I found that you have to be really experienced in making maps to use the Sketchup - it can only get you so far for concept. I really do like the idea of showing gamers before hand, really neat there's no downfall to that whatsoever.

What I mean is I had no idea how important LOS really is - as a new way of thinking about maps - for balanced competitive play until 2 days ago. The littlest things will throw the gameplay off. It's really hard to tell in this program, whether geometry will work or not until you see in first person in game with at least 20 games played with gks and the map actually being built to see its downfalls. I like seeing new concepts that I can come up with, but a lot of it is horribly off scale when I design in sketchup, IDK but after messing around for hours on it trying to figure out the gameplay itself from only sketchup just seems like it could be hours actually building it and testing later.

I'm trying to say is as a helpful hint to new forgers, don't think you can build and figure out all the map in sketch and replicate it 100% to foundry, use it more as a thumbs up or thumbs down for ideas - tool. Just trying to help for those interested in my findings trial and error.

[-ImplosioN-]

Alright, I'm fully awake now and can kinda offer some better suggestions. I'm just gonna concentrate on elements that would pertain to team slayer, I'll save my objective gametype ranting for another time. Beware, this is gonna be a huge post.

The biggest problem I've seen with a lot of forged TS maps, is that they are way too standoff-ishy. Reminds me of sanctuary too much. While sanctuary had great geometry, and at times, good shooting angles, I feel there wasn't much to promote movement, at least for TS. Flag was amazing on that map though, no beefs with that. For TS, you HAVE TO, and I mean HAVE TO (pardon the caps) give people a reason to move. I think sanctuary TS was really dull and unexciting because there was little to promote movement. Either you won the initial rush for the sword and gained control, or you didn't, and spent a lot of time fighting an uphill battle. I don't think this is at all like H1's TS gameplay, which is what we should be trying to imitate as much as possible. Excuse me if I am mistaken, as I only played H1 for a short time competitively (as I didn't have broadband until recently), but in TS, if you didn't win the initial rush, there was a lot of opportunity to gain an advantage, such as powerups on quick timers, and power weapons on quick timers. This is something I highly disagree with MLG on, is long timers on just about everything. And by disagree, I don't mean gettin all pissy and complaining about, it's just something I think can be improved on for the sake of making this game play better.

The reason I think having power weapons on a half-time timer, but with half ammo, is because it discourages setups, encourages free flowing gameplay, and it allows a team to come back if they are good at timing weapons. I know other people have thought of this before, but it always seemed odd to me that MLG would discourage initial mindless rushes (camo of The Pit hall) for the sake of strategy, yet seemingly putting the weapons on long timers to encourage setting up, which I think is just as bad as initial rushes. If those of you reading this post haven't read Cursed Lemon's posts about how setups are ruining Halo, I suggest you read them NOW. But back to my point, it really doesn't make sense to increase the movement speed and increase the damage to make gameplay faster, but to have slow spawning power objects. Truly, the weapons and powerups should be the literal "objectives" that players should be fighting for, just as they were in H1. If we don't have reasons to move around the map, every single match is going to end up with Lockout style gameplay. While Lockout was a great map and it's gameplay was unique, that was the only thing keeping it in the rotation, it's uniqueness. I can't imagine how horrible Halo would be if every map was lockout style with 1 highly favored base. But 1 Lockout is good :-)


I have a suggestion, but it takes a different approach to power objects than usual. I'm going to use The Pit as my example map. Instead of having rockets, OS, both snipers, and maulers ALL spawning at once, why don't we set it up to where the weaponset alternates? What I mean by that, is have say at the beginning of the round, have both snipers to spawn, and have a camo to spawn on sword bridge with maulers in the same place. Those weapons would be on a 6 minute respawn time (if that's possible). Then, set the rockets and OS (in long hall) on a spawn for 3 minutes after the round starts. That way, there wouldn't be an overbearing amount of weapons at any given time, and instead of promoting a single setup (which can be boring to watch), we would have a whole new weaponset being given every three minutes or so with different setups each time. If it was up to me, all of our weapons would be on a 1:30 timer with half ammo, instead of a 3:00 timer with full ammo, but that's just my opinion and I'm sure there is a good reason for not having it H1 style. It probably doesn't work very well with the H3 engine, I don't know, but just in the odd case that it hasn't been thoroughly thought out, I decided to present this argument, as I feel that we could build much better maps if we knew movement was going to flow well on it.

I don't know if everybody reading this post thinks it's a good idea to think in this direction (H1 style gameplay), or if we should try to take a H2 style approach, all I know is that the way gameplay is flowing right now in H3, can be hugely improved on.

And BTW, I don't want anybody thinking that my long posts indicate that I somehow think I know everything, it's just not many people really take the time and try to help think of how to improve this game, and while the direction I'm thinking in might not be the right direction, I think we would be alot better off if more people took the time to think out a good solution to our problems instead of complaining nonstop about them (not sayin u guys complain, i'm talkin about the halo community as a whole). That's all :-)

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this post was more of a gameplay oriented post than a map making post. My bad guys. It's just that I feel really limited with what we have for options in term of weapon spawning. Also, if we know 100% how a map is gonna flow and what the head MLG people want for the gameplay elements, it's alot easier to design.

[That-DAM-n00b]

implode:

gameplay is completely dictated by map flow and you have a lot of astute observations and strong points in that post that should be heavily weighed when building a map. If you go to the link to nasty's thread in my first post, you would see that what you were discussing about TS, was actually discussed in that thread.

[-ImplosioN-]

The thing is, would MLG pick up a map with quick spawning power weapons? The only reason I'm asking this, is because I'm not sure if MLG would even pick up a map if it strayed too far from what's popular. That's all I'm really trying to get down to. I feel this would improve gameplay dramatically. If I know the maps are even ALLOWED to use quick spawning weapons, then I would. If I know that I'm not allowed to do that, then I wouldn't.

What I'm thinking right now, is that I (or whoever wants to) should make a test map built solely around quick spawns, with alternating weapon sets. Even if the alternating weapons isn't a good idea, I still think quick spawns should be tried, to see if it works better than the current situation.

[jonrl999]

Just want to say I like what you guys are doing and I hope it works out for you

Implode I like some of your ideas, and I agree that the weapon spawns might need some tweaking. I may be wrong but H1 and H2 both had different times on different maps for the same weapon (some varied some were the same or similar) correct? Why has MLG strayed from that? Wasn't timing one of the things that PROs had to learn, and something that made them a PRO? It seems they have followed the way of Bungie by dumbing it down a bit.

Only reason I even bring this up is because it can hurt or help a map. Think of Chill Out. Good map by itself, interesting design etc. Wouldn't this map get boring and possibly slow if it was nothing but pistols on the map? IMO one of the best parts of the map is the placement of items and the times they appear. It created flow to the map and gave each team opportunity to get those items. I guess you could argue either side of the question though, and that question is would the game play have been much different had those items all spawned at the same time or at different times? Also which is more balanced, and which one leads to less randomness, and more to the better team winning?

All weapons spawning equal means a team could go for other items. Say skipping rockets on pit and going for mauler, OS, snipes. This could potentially lead to different plans for teams. Instead of rushing rockets and getting killed, get the snipe and kill rocket guy. If items spawn at different times it can cause a team to win the initial rush, and then set up for each of the following spawns. Because they already have the power items, this gives them the advantage in keeping them, which does not always lead to the better team winning.

More than items, I think spawns are critical for a map. I like the foundry maps onslaught and stockpile. IMO onslaught is OK but the shooting angles etc aren't great, but overall it's a decent map. What breaks the map for me is the spawns. I regularly kill someone only to have them spawn next/behind me while my shields are still low. This even happens when my team is holding one side of the map. I think we all have also see our fair share of spawning into BR fire or nades.

Sorry for the long post, it was supposed to be short and sweet, and I even erased a bunch of it. Just to sum it up, for designing a map, keep in mind a few things. Think of all the best maps and think about the spawn areas the shooting angles, the key areas to hold, the item placement. Don't design for looks because it will lead to crap.

[-ImplosioN-]

All weapons spawning equal means a team could go for other items. Say skipping rockets on pit and going for mauler, OS, snipes. This could potentially lead to different plans for teams. Instead of rushing rockets and getting killed, get the snipe and kill rocket guy. If items spawn at different times it can cause a team to win the initial rush, and then set up for each of the following spawns. Because they already have the power items, this gives them the advantage in keeping them, which does not always lead to the better team winning.

Hey man nice post. Yeah what you bring up in the paragraph I quoted is true, it was simply an idea I threw out there. While you are right in thinking that whoever wins the first rush could possibly have an advantage for the next set of weapons, I think if you limited ammo just right, had the timing between the two groups just right, and the types of weapons weren't types that could fully neutralize the other team in the environment of the new weapon spawns, it would work good. Sure it would have to be properly refined, but right now we don't know if a competitive balance could be or couldn't be achieved. As long as you didn't spawn a shotgun in the middle of the map 1 minute, and have rockets spawn at sword room the next, I don't think it would be a serious problem.

We won't really know until it's tested though. I don't have my 360 with me, but I think this weekend I'll modify the mlg version of The Pit and run some customs just to see. Might end up being a not so good idea either, to me it's just another thing that could potentially make the game better.


edit: oh and BTW you should check out the V6 version of Onslaught and the V2 version of Stockpile, they have MUCH better spawns and everything is overall much better and complete feeling. check em out.

[jonrl999]

Yeah it's 3:30 in the morning so these posts have a good chance of not being too coherent.

Anyway. As I said, you could probably argue for either way. Chill Out is one of the most beloved maps in the series and its item spawns are more like what you are talking about. Right now most of the game types seem balanced fairly well. I suppose the only real way to tell is trying and testing. I for one am all for it. Something might work for a specific map and not for others as well, so different times may work for Pit and not for Guardian etc etc.

MLG might not want to make it super complex. H1 was quite simple as a game. The beauty of it though was how complex it was at the upper level. Knowing shortcuts, nade points, small glitches, item timing, and even learning/using the spawn system. Not only did you need good knowledge of all this, but you also needed actual shooting skill as well. Of course it is still there somewhat, but why to a lesser degree I'm not sure.

I don't think the game should be overly complex, but adding some more depth to it IMO wouldn't hurt the competitive scene.

[Status]

Yikes. Too much new leetness in this thread for my brain to absorb at this late hour. I'll catch up on the discussion tomorrow.

--

So I haven't forged since I finished Statusphere. That was pretty much right when the first Forge glitches were popping up. I'm pretty sure I can still interlock, but I was having trouble when I was trying to simply sink a box halfway into the ground the other day. I have no idea how to even begin going about merging boxes and what not into the walls of Foundry (this was dubbed "geo-glitching," I believe?).

Would anybody with a good knowledge of all of the glitches and a few spare minutes be willing to bring me up to date on the correct way to execute these essential techniques? I'm a quick learner, and I'd really appreciate it.

[Cadillac]

I just wanted to chime in and say that this stuff seems really ambitious and im glad you guys are working on it.

Second, I wouldnt go with another two base design either. And if I did I would certainly make bottoms of the bases. Right now the largest problems in Onslaught come from not enough safe spawning. Please, please, please take spawning into account when designing every map from now on. This has been a huge mistake in my early maps as well.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Frtiz, if you see this, PM me or IM me, thanks.

[-NaStY-]

My newest map idea, Gambit. Though I did this map in what seems to be a very narrow space, I think everything would just be expanded so that the walls of foundry could be used. Thus, many materials would be conserved by not having to make my own walls. The cost, of course, is the large amount of geo-glitching required so that everything is flush to the walls (thanks to the *** lip at the bottom). Still, using door techniques this shouldn't be that much of a hassle.

One key to this map would be to NOT place a power-weapon of some kind in that covered hallway. As we all know, placement like this, which is best exemplified by the pit, does not create interesting battles or standoffs, but instead just


http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9847/gambitoverheaddh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5823/gambit1vs3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9233/gambit2ft5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

One key to this map would be to NOT place a power-weapon of some kind in that covered hallway. As we all know, placement like this, which is best exemplified by the pit, does not create interesting battles or standoffs, but instead just mindless nade spam.

Now, another issue is snipers. I've seen a lot of people lately posting things like "No, foundry is too small for a sniper." Now if you look at the Golden Rules thread, one of the first things we lay down is that the sniper is a great, skillful weapon as long as its not being used at long range, where hit detection is slow and bad. It's a specialist weapon as long as the level doesn't allow you to sit at a range where it completely outclasses every other weapon. The idea should be that good snipers find a good angle and have good prediction, get one nasty kill up through 6 beams and a teammate, then slink back in to the shadows and find a new position. So this idea that there are levels that are too small for the sniper doesn't make sense. There are levels that are too BIG for a sniper, where it dominates too much and becomes a power - weapon. Sniper as a power-weapon is a no-no for the most part.

What I'm getting at is that placing 1 or even 2 opposing snipers in a foundry sized level should not be an issue. If anything, the short range should make it hard to use them, making the kills you get more rewarding. If someone is arguing that they're too useless, well... would you really not pick up a sniper? It has the highest kill speed in the game, it's gonna be useful for something.

So on this level I'd probably have BR's, Carbines, 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 Snipers (90 sec, 1 extra clip), and a 2:00 drop spawn rocket that sits beneath the beam extending from window.

My hope would be that teams would set up on this map, and that it would even make a great CTF map (lengthwise, obviously). The idea is that there are some powerful points on each side that allow a setup. Added to this are some really interesting / complicated lines of sight. And finally, there's all sorts of winding ramps up and down, but the elevation changes mean that you actually have to follow these ramps instead of just jumping straight up to high elevation. Now, once your team has found some useful places to setup on this map and watch, they will quickly realize that having the rocket launcher is an extremely powerful thing. So it's worth it to try and grab it. But it's location is not easily gotten too, nor gotten away from. It will almost certainly cause some death and destruction when somebody goes for RL. Either the other team slacks, let's you grab the RL, or the team will destroy you as you go for it.

[-Champloo-]

Looks sweet.

In the second pic, on the right hand side of the map, that ramp/pillar combo looks EXACTLY like red base on HeH. lol

But you said CTF? It looks asymmetrical, so idk. HeH ctf was pretty epic though. lol

[-NaStY-]

Another thing that I like about this design is that one side seems to have a very powerful position, but has many blind spots to the other team's movement. Like lockout, this affords some more strategic and innovative movement / planning to go on. The window room can only look laterally, so perhaps two players could gather at the bottom of that wall (the major blind spot wall), and then partner boost up on to the beam. That could cause some serious disruption.

Or maybe your team can hide in the covered areas of the map for a bit and throw a coordinated set of grenades that renders the more open area of "window" side inhospitable for a few seconds. This would allow your point man to sneak through no-man's land in to the tunnel beneath window.

Or maybe you keep one player throwing lots of grenades and cover fire to distract from the 3 man push through covered hallway, flanking the window and open position and leaving them little escape.


EDIT: Yeah mayne, asymmetrical CTF isn't that unheard of :)

Now, it was customary to play two games and combine the scores when playing CTF HeH, Damnation, etc. But with our slew of options in Halo 3, we could do something more.

For instance, we could use the round system and make it a two round game with time 15 minute time limits. Now that CTF only appears in the Pro Bracket, this isn't that unreasonable for time constraints.

EDIT 2:

Sorry I'm so .. verbose about this map haha, but another thing I want to add:

Note the closed off areas that don't really dead end that badly, but lend themselves nicely to safe spawns.


One thing I'd like to try, if some people are down for doing some experimentation, is making a map with very few spawns. The idea here is that with so few spawns, it may reduce the effectiveness of Halo 3's crazy (read: horrible) spawning algorithm and reduce it to: you spawn next to your teammates. If these few spawns are generally speaking safe, then getting spawn ***** would again be something you blame on your team, instead of the game.

The algorithm, I believe, gives +1000 for a teammates presence near the spawn, -1000 for an enemy's, and some more minor modifiers for deaths, etc.

With few enough spawns, the game would be forced to put you near teammates, and therefore at a very predictable spawn. It won't be able to find spawns that have anything going for them, because they'll all be within the realm of the enemy. The only ones that are +1000 or even neutral will be next to your teammates. Yay for consistency!

[-Champloo-]

EDIT: Yeah mayne, asymmetrical CTF isn't that unheard of :)

Now, it was customary to play two games and combine the scores when playing CTF HeH, Damnation, etc. But with our slew of options in Halo 3, we could do something more.

For instance, we could use the round system and make it a two round game with time 15 minute time limits. Now that CTF only appears in the Pro Bracket, this isn't that unreasonable for time constraints.
I would love to play it, I was just sayin', sooooo many people only want to do ctf on symmetrical map... mostly because H2/H3 brought the bulk of this forum's population >.>

[-NaStY-]

I would love to play it, I was just sayin', sooooo many people only want to do ctf on symmetrical map... mostly because H2/H3 brought the bulk of this forum's population >.>

Ah, on that you're probably right.

Still, Slayer, KOTH and Ball should work perfectly fine.

I'd be mostly concerned with the expansion of this map in to the foundry setting. The standard area we tend to use is square, and this map is decidedly rectangular. I think the best solution will be to have a more isolated path over on the East side of the map (as per the overhead). Perhaps put a death pit on one edge to make it "treacherous" like elbow on Lockout, or Waterfalls on Damnation. Basically, add another part to the map that is the road less traveled, and makes up for its length of traversal and death pit danger by being unexpected and sneaky.

[iM_xZonKeD]

nasty can you tell me how to post something from sketchup on the forums. i cant quite figure out how to get it on

[-NaStY-]

nasty can you tell me how to post something from sketchup on the forums. i cant quite figure out how to get it on

Don't worry, there's nothing super complicated about it.

Step 1:
Take a screenshot.

Step 2:
Upload the screenshot.


:D :D

[-Champloo-]

Don't worry, there's nothing super complicated about it.

Step 1:
Take a screenshot.

Step 2:
Upload the screenshot.


:D :D
lol


Yeah, TS and such should work fine. Asymmetrical maps are the best for TS(go dammy).

Question though, how was Rat Race CTF set up? Wasn't it 1 flag? lol

[iM_xZonKeD]

take a sreenshot as in......
lol idk im 13 im not really the smartest kid youll ever meet lmao

[Mephisto]

lol


Yeah, TS and such should work fine. Asymmetrical maps are the best for TS(go dammy).

Question though, how was Rat Race CTF set up? Wasn't it 1 flag? lol
it was multi-flag, 1 under OS, and the other was on the opposite side of the map

[-NaStY-]

take a sreenshot as in......
lol idk im 13 im not really the smartest kid youll ever meet lmao

Alt + PrintScreen button

Open paint / photoshop

Control + V


:D

[iM_xZonKeD]

thank you:)

[Epic_LeeZy]

im down to be a tester, Im not known for it or anything but I have no problem looking for problems on maps

[jonrl999]

I like the look of the map, looks like it would be interesting. I'm not sure about rockets and snipers, but if it's big enough it could work.

Symmetrical maps are the best for CTF. The round system would have to be the way to go, or even 1 flag. IMO 1 flag can get boring though because if the entire offense team is killed there is often a lot of time that goes by before anymore action happens (depending on map size and line of sight etc). If it's multi, that action never stops, and again IMO shows the better team. HeH was a great map for CTF though so I wouldn't rule it out completely.

I'd be interested to see someone use one side of Foundry, as in one of the bases, or the area in front of the base. Your map being designed narrow could take advantage of that length going from the base to the back wall.

[Status]

Alt + PrintScreen button

Open paint / photoshop

Control + V


:D

Maybe its just the keyboard or OS you use, but with Windows XP I just have to press PrintScreen... no Alt necessary.

Also, Zonked, if you were still unsure after these instructions.

Save the file once you've copied it (by pressing Control + V) in Paint.
Then go to imageshack.us
Click browse, and select the file you just saved. Click upload.
On the next screen that loads, scroll all the way to the bottom and copy the very last address they give you.
Then in this posting box, click the mountain/postcard button and paste the address you just copied.

[tigaer]

Nasty, map looks good. But how are you going to make the beam in foundry? Nothings that thin.
You should to keep in mind what you get to use in foundry when designing your maps.

And to take a real screenshot in sketchup, file/export/2d image, it'll save a clean version of the view.

[Heej]

Both of Nasty's maps look amazing, but I must say that his second one looks many times more impressive and creative. I really enjoy how the power position on the map is riddled with blindspots and places for players to sneak by. It really appeals to me because I'm one of those players that likes to play sneaky, and something that really caters to my tastes.

It also appears to have great lines of sight from what I can see in the sketchup. Multiple levels are always a good thing too. And there is just enough cover, not too much that it cuts off potential br battles, but not too little that you feel like you're always out in the open and can't Strongside away when you think you're not in a good spot.

[like_852_ninjas]

We need a Hill map. I was workin on a Ball map and some kid came in and deleted everything while I was saving. There are CTF and slayer maps everywhere but wh have the worst maps for oddball. If we do build a oddball map then it would have to be assymetrical. And hill maps would need opened areas. And tons of elevations.

[-NaStY-]

Nasty, map looks good. But how are you going to make the beam in foundry? Nothings that thin.
You should to keep in mind what you get to use in foundry when designing your maps.

And to take a real screenshot in sketchup, file/export/2d image, it'll save a clean version of the view.

Barriers my man, barriers :D

Barriers are the most underappreciated piece of scenery. For instance, the underground passage in the build of Cryptech that I've been working on is made completely of barriers.

Since the beam is intended more to mix up the line of sight and less to be walked on, using teleporters to hold them in place should be satisfactory.

[Baron Saturday]

With regard to the H3 roulette wheel of respawn point selection:

We know that repawn points are given + or - values based on various factors, such as if there are teammates or enemies nearby.

Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of what constitutes "nearby" ?

[-NaStY-]

With regard to the H3 roulette wheel of respawn point selection:

We know that repawn points are given + or - values based on various factors, such as if there are teammates or enemies nearby.

Does anyone have any definitive knowledge of what constitutes "nearby" ?


A great point, and an issue that I deliberately skirted earlier. Nobody really knows that radius in which a spawn point detects a teammates (or enemy's) presence. It may be fully calculated for every spawn point. That is:

Every time a spawn needs to take place, the game runs a full calculation on the distances of all enemies, recent deaths and teammates from every spawn. It then weights their values based on distance (presumably with an exponential bias as the distances decrease, since a death should have little impact on a spawn across the map). The spawn with the most positive value is then chosen, or if there is a tie, one is chosen randomly.


This is of course a theory, and in fact seems somewhat inconsistent with some Bungie explanations that seemed to have discrete point values that were not weighted by distance. In this case, it would be more like what I was thinking earlier, where each point has a critical sphere of some radius about it, and its spawn value is taken from all the + or - modifiers that lie within that sphere. Thus you could have had 14 teammates die right outside of the critical radius and its spawn value would be unaffected.

[Baron Saturday]

A great point, and an issue that I deliberately skirted earlier. Nobody really knows that radius in which a spawn point detects a teammates (or enemy's) presence. It may be fully calculated for every spawn point. That is:

Every time a spawn needs to take place, the game runs a full calculation on the distances of all enemies, recent deaths and teammates from every spawn. It then weights their values based on distance (presumably with an exponential bias as the distances decrease, since a death should have little impact on a spawn across the map). The spawn with the most positive value is then chosen, or if there is a tie, one is chosen randomly.


This is of course a theory, and in fact seems somewhat inconsistent with some Bungie explanations that seemed to have discrete point values that were not weighted by distance. In this case, it would be more like what I was thinking earlier, where each point has a critical sphere of some radius about it, and its spawn value is taken from all the + or - modifiers that lie within that sphere. Thus you could have had 14 teammates die right outside of the critical radius and its spawn value would be unaffected.

The critical speher theory seems more logical to me but I think the truth is probably somewhere between the two theories. As any algorithms they will use can look at all of the game data available, not just the respawn points, why wouldnt they? From bungie's explanation it does seem that some area around the respawn point will be considered also.

I wonder if it could be tested..

[-NaStY-]

The critical speher theory seems more logical to me but I think the truth is probably somewhere between the two theories. As any algorithms they will use can look at all of the game data available, not just the respawn points, why wouldnt they? From bungie's explanation it does seem that some area around the respawn point will be considered also.

I wonder if it could be tested..

Go in to forge, and put one player standing between two spawn points. The dead player should spawn randomly between the two points when killed over and over. Then inch the teammate a bit towards one spawn point and see if the dead player consistently spawns at the point the teammate is closer to.

Then, spread the spawn points out and repeat, and see how far you can get them before the teammate's presence is no longer factored, at which point the player will spawn randomly between the two again.

[-NaStY-]

Go in to forge, and put one player standing between two spawn points. The dead player should spawn randomly between the two points when killed over and over. Then inch the teammate a bit towards one spawn point and see if the dead player consistently spawns at the point the teammate is closer to.

Then, spread the spawn points out and repeat, and see how far you can get them before the teammate's presence is no longer factored, at which point the player will spawn randomly between the two again.

Has anybody tried this yet? I haven't had the time.

[Mephisto]

you guys need to know that certain weapons that you hold also affect spawns. for instance, if you hold the sniper, enemies are more likely to spawn closer to you. which is why enemies always seem to spawn behind you at the beach on highground. it's not just a coincidence.

[-NaStY-]

you guys need to know that certain weapons that you hold also affect spawns. for instance, if you hold the sniper, enemies are more likely to spawn closer to you. which is why enemies always seem to spawn behind you at the beach on highground. it's not just a coincidence.

Crapp, really?

That really makes controlling the spawns a much harder issue. Still, I think if we have very few spawns on a level like the one I posted where people will tend to set up, then the spawns will be predictable.

[RELLIK PIR]

I want to run some tests. If anyone is on right now. While my short forge attention span is here join me. I'll even pull out pen and paper.

[That-DAM-n00b]

I think baron and nasty have touched on a very important point, and thats figuring out exactly what affects spawns and how so we can better design where spawns are at based on that criteria.

[Mephisto]

I'm sure you guys knew this already but if you throw a grenade at a spawn, as they're spawning, they're extremely unlikely to spawn at that point.

Grenades seem to be the ONLY thing that definitely affect spawns. I've done tests in the past, and i have never been able to draw any logical conclusions; no matter what you do, there will be at least 1% of randomness to a spawn no matter what.

That thing about the sniper- i read that on b.net after the beta came out.

[Mephisto]

If I made a separate forge forum, would you guys join/contribute?

[-NaStY-]

Yep.

[MLG_KonArtist]

RE:: spawing isssues and how to place spawning areas. I posted this theory about 3 months ago-- hope it help you or anyone else trying to salve this mystary. Also on forgehub there is another artical about resapwing areas, that is a little easier read. Note it is based on what I wrote in earily jan.


In H3 as many have found out --it is pretty easy to predict respawn areas, the reason is-- the game thinks the best place to re spawn is the furthest away form the opponents. This becomes a problem is small symmetrical maps like Exile. ex. In H2H when you kill someone from top of ?B? base, they will most likely respawn at ?A? base. This has been fixed by adding a respawn algorithm, so that spawns are very difficult to predict.

What is a respawn algorithm and instruction on making them. A set of ordered steps for solving a problem, such as a mathematical formula or the instructions in a program. The terms algorithm and logic are synonymous. Both refer to a sequence of steps to solve a problem. However, an algorithm implies an expression that solves a complex problem rather than the overall input-process-output logic of typical business programs.

How to make complicate repsawns.

1. in forge, select a game type--slayer, ctf, koth, ball, etc
2. select spawners (6 of 7) - and select respawn area.
3. Place the first respawn area marker in the center of your map, make it neutral, and spawn order is 1
4. Place 2 respawn area maker somewhere else on the map--order

Now to spawn kill you must memorize all the respawn areas, and the order of the respawn area with respect to how many kills there have been. This help out in small symmetrical map like Exile, b/c it make it harder to predict were your opponent(s) will respawn.

On Exile FFA 2.3 I have added 8 spawning area modifiers, that brake up the map, and some that include the whole playing area. Hopefully this fixes any issue with spawn camping and now Exile will be even more fun the play H2H, 2v2, and FFA.

Now-- I have used respawn algorithm on both Exile and Nightshift, I think you will find that your maps will become better and more fun to play when less spawn camping. Hope this helps those that are just starting to male maps in forge and those that just needed to make the spawn system work. I hope to see more great maps after this thing is over, b/c bungie H3 arn't all that good. If anyone has question on how to make respawn algorithm ask...

Ok so a more details on how to make spawning algorithm.

1. select game type- slayer, ctf, koth, ball
2. select spawning area
3. place first spawning modifier in center in map and make as 1—as spawning area order
4. create your algorithm

you don’t just place spawning area modifiers “randomly” around the map and label them with a order 1-8.
First you have to find a set of number that are non repeating, like PHI or PI
Write your log sequence. Like so—
X, Y, location of center of respawn area modifier, Then Height, length, depth of respawn area modifier. Then the distance to the location to the next respawn area modifier in relationship to the one that preceded before.

Ex. Using PI witch is also non repeating

3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679 8214808651 3282306647 0938446095 5058223172 5359408128 4811174502 8410270193 8521105559 6446229489 5493038196

Ok so theres truly a random sequence of numbers, and more then enough numbers to write your own respawn log

So to make it easy to follow what to do I will just start using the number after the decimal point. Grab a piece of paper and make a spread sheet that has the follow in this order. X, Y, Top, Length, Width

So the first spawning area modifier goes in center, then select it, change its values to find were the next spawning area modifier goes. Ok, X = 1. Y = 4 so change the length and width on you 1st spawning area to 1x6. then pick a corner, this is the spot where spawning area 2 goes.

Spawning area top get values for height, length and width, those are 1,5,9. write that down. B/c right now you want to find the next location, spawning area 3. to do this repeat—X= 2, Y=6…. Goes 1-8, then go back and give the right values for each respawn area.

Now if you just go X, Y, b/t each respawn point you are going to create a diagonal line roughly. So b/t each respawn location turn 90 degrees in any direction, left or right, just do it the same b/t each placement. This will make the respawning area overlap and stay in map. For some reason you next spawning point is out of map. Place it back in center on top of point 1.

Sorry I’m not the best at explaining things, DL Exile 2.4 and go into forge mode and change game type to slayer or ball, or koth. You will see all the spawning area that I put in, and the different size fields that they control.

Now… Just b/c you have the spawning area and set order you are not limited to respawn in those set areas only. I believe the system goes through the possibilities in order to find the safest place to respawn. I am not sure exactly how spawning system works, but what I do know is this lead to randomized spawning. Hopefully this more detail explanation will help those that are having problems setting spawns-- Specifically those that have symmetrical maps. Hope that helps a few of you, see you all online.

[Mephisto]

is that a joke kon?

[-Champloo-]

Does anyone want to try making Damnation out of Avalanche? It'll be a long and grueling process, but well worth it imo. Just use one of the edges that you can fall off for the three walkways using the save/quit glitch and design the rest of the map from there. The difficulty comes in closing off the rest of the map really.

And Nasty, send a fr to Champloo Who mmmkay? =)

[MLG_KonArtist]

is that a joke kon?
Yah you got me-- I bet u tried it. LOL.

[Pyroteq]

I've got an original idea for a Forge map in Foundry. I'm crap with Forge but I've got a creative mind. My idea uses both the bases on Foundry and will be setup as a CTF map. Unlike most other Foundry maps I want to make use of the existing map and I also want to make use of high areas for elevation advantage. The concept I'm currently working on is similar to Sidewinder in design.

Anyone wanna help?

I've also got some original ideas for shield doors and teleporters among other things.

[zakboo]

Anyone wanna help?


Send me a FR, my GT is Doublekill guys.

[-Champloo-]

Does anyone want to try making Damnation out of Avalanche? It'll be a long and grueling process, but well worth it imo. Just use one of the edges that you can fall off for the three walkways using the save/quit glitch and design the rest of the map from there. The difficulty comes in closing off the rest of the map really.

And Nasty, send a fr to Champloo Who mmmkay? =)
Bump.

[fabolousrmx]

Lockdown is an great map~ whats next for the top mlg forgers?

[Sidek]

I think that the big forge names should get together and make a map pack. Onslaught and Lockdown are (IMO) just as good as bungie maps, better than most of them actually. And those were made by Nexn/Kronic and Nexn/Salot ONLY. Think if the maps were made by all the forgers, just dividing into 3 teams for 3 different maps. I know that too big a party and problems happen, but there could be subteams of 2. One working on initial map gameplay, next on perfecting gameplay, then placement and jumps team, and finally a remastering team, making it straight and pretty and all. You guys could pretty much churn out maps that make all bungie maps (in H3) look like they were made by one person in a day.

[Master Dictator]

I think that the big forge names should get together and make a map pack. Onslaught and Lockdown are (IMO) just as good as bungie maps, better than most of them actually. And those were made by Nexn/Kronic and Nexn/Salot ONLY. Think if the maps were made by all the forgers, just dividing into 3 teams for 3 different maps. I know that too big a party and problems happen, but there could be subteams of 2. One working on initial map gameplay, next on perfecting gameplay, then placement and jumps team, and finally a remastering team, making it straight and pretty and all. You guys could pretty much churn out maps that make all bungie maps (in H3) look like they were made by one person in a day.
I think bungie should take onslaught and make it a actual map. Fix some of the spawns...they can bungie it up if they want to. Aslong as its a actual map and they fix some of the problems ill be happy.

[Sidek]

Better yet..... fire all of Bungie's map designing staff execs, replace with Salot, Nexn, Kronic, Kon, etc

[Master Dictator]

ide plus rep u if I could. Best Idea ive seen on here ina while =D but we gotta give bungie props for GT and BL

[r0b_th3_b3ast]

I like how the thing you made supporting Onslaught is a lot of other poster's sigs but not yours, haha jk.

Anyways, have you, the roundtable, ever actually given considerable effort towards an exact midship replica?

[-NaStY-]

New project for the roundtable:

Competitive ghost town.

I just got online with KraYziE and we got some really good ideas going about how to really do this map right. Unfortunately, though the changes would make it probably the best map available to us, it will require a lot of forging, especially because it's so hard to geo / straighten things on ghost town without any flat surfaces. It will require a lot of manpower to do the whole thing. We'll post a diagram later showing our ideas, and then we can discuss it here, polish the idea, and then go to work. As a quick preview of our thinking:

We've decided that the map will run best if treated like a rotational sector based map, akin to Chill Out. That means we have three somewhat segregated areas that will interact with each other in several different ways. On top of that, Ghost Town features an excellent top middle structure that lets all the action focus in every once in a while, creating an ebb and flow as teams control the top center structure.

Right now we've split the map in to sectors as follows:
-The warehouse area, which goes out to around that main metal bridge, and extends as far as the large wall with the archway beneath it.
-The area beyond that wall which is mostly jungle, and contains an arch-like structure protruding from the edge of the level (clearly put in just to protect spawns
-What we're calling useless corner, which contains the atrium, the jungle corner with the pipes, and what hopefully everyone will recognize as sniper tower

The largest changes will be:
-Completely closing off the atrium
-Adding many more ramps and catwalks to create a walkway system all the way from sniper, around top center over to useless corner and then curves around to the jungle area
-Eliminating a couple extra tunnels / routes that are superfluous hidey holes that would only promote camping
-Power-up placement

What we're hoping to do is remove the atrium but still use additional catwalks and blockades such that the sniper tower "belongs" to the sector that contains useless corner, pipes, etc. We want to detach sniper tower from warehouse because warehouse is already positionally strong, and by giving it to useless corner and adding catwalks we actually totally redefine that area and make it worth having. Meanwhile, all the high up action will tend to drain down in to the lowest part of the map, the jungle sector, which will accordingly hold the highly dangerous rocket spawn.

[KrAyZiE]

Here's a diagram to go along with the above post.

The colors represent the quadrants that NaStY was talking about.

http://i27.tinypic.com/adzu6h.jpg

[MLG_KonArtist]

useless corner. lol. I think that is the perfect name for it. Also I have to agree, that closing off the atrium is the right thing to do. It looks like an old POS and plays like an old POS. However, I really hope some things happens with this map, that makes it play fast and great. B/c right now it just looks like something that bungie ripped off from COD4 to try to get some of its players back.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Here's a diagram to go along with the above post.

The colors represent the quadrants that NaStY was talking about.

http://i27.tinypic.com/adzu6h.jpg


hmm interesting.

[iM_xZonKeD]

Here's a diagram to go along with the above post.

The colors represent the quadrants that NaStY was talking about.

http://i27.tinypic.com/adzu6h.jpg

where will the teams spawn??
pretty much anywhere one team spawns on has an advantage towrd something.

[Sidek]

looks interesting, but you need to make everybody start out the same...... hard to do, but ya.

[Sidek]

looks interesting, but you need to make everybody start out the same...... hard to do, but ya.

[KrAyZiE]

First off, just because everyone doesn't have the same walk to a power weapon when they spawn doesnt make the map unbalanced. The problem you face with assymetrical maps is just that, they are not the same on both sides. It's a given on symmetrical maps to just throw something either in the middle, or in the same spot on both sides.

You can create balance without being symmetrical all the time.. it's just harder. Looking at the map now, I would say that one team spawns outside of greenhouse or around useless corner so that they have a closer run than the other team to sniper or rockets. The other team then spawns in giant warehouse.

Remember guys, this is a work in progress. There is still a LOT of work to be done with the re-construction of useless corner and outside of greenhouse with custom forged catwalks and bridges. This is just a start.

[Bonesaw]

This is more of a question posed to MLG rather than a forge team, but what about this for asymmetrical maps (or just maps in general):

Powerups/weapons set to NOT spawn at start. That way, the initial 1 or 2 minutes would be a struggle for map control, not weapons. Sure, you could potentially start off in a disadvantaged area, but it shouldn't be game breaking.

This will also add some flavor to the opening break. The way it stands now, the opening seconds of a game are basically forced into some already predetermined strats. If you don't rush particular weapons, the other team WILL get them.

If the powerups aren't there at start, teams can formulate their own unique strategies for each map. Should you attempt to form a setup around the weapon/powerup spawn areas? Go for overall advantageous slaying positions? Maybe form a "counter-setup" around the weapon spawn... giving the opposing team an easy grab at the rockets, but a very difficult time to leave with them?

In maps I've created myself, I've used this technique in conjunction with several starting spawn points. It mixes up the initial moments of the game, ala Halo 1. You have to quickly asses the situation and form a strategy on the fly, rather than using the same tried and true method that every single team out there knows and uses themselves.

[fabolousrmx]

I totally want to playtest this, Don't leave me out!

[Status]

That is a good idea, Bonesaw. It would definitely open games up to a lot of different beginning strats.

[SnaKKer]

I haven't forged in a while. But in that time I've thought up many ideas for maps/concepts that I would like to make.

Same here.

I did alot of forging when Foundry came out, working with Status and Hitzel to make Block Fort and some others, but I haven't had much time recently to build competitive maps. The majority of work I have done recently has been for zombie maps, since we end up having alot more zombie lans than MLG ones here. I'd love to get in on some of this action, though.

[-Champloo-]

I've wanted to try Bonesaw's idea for a while now.

[KrAyZiE]

Bonesaw, that is an extremely good idea. That will definatley change the way I look at forging ghost town.

[-NaStY-]

This is more of a question posed to MLG rather than a forge team, but what about this for asymmetrical maps (or just maps in general):

Powerups/weapons set to NOT spawn at start. That way, the initial 1 or 2 minutes would be a struggle for map control, not weapons. Sure, you could potentially start off in a disadvantaged area, but it shouldn't be game breaking.

This will also add some flavor to the opening break. The way it stands now, the opening seconds of a game are basically forced into some already predetermined strats. If you don't rush particular weapons, the other team WILL get them.

If the powerups aren't there at start, teams can formulate their own unique strategies for each map. Should you attempt to form a setup around the weapon/powerup spawn areas? Go for overall advantageous slaying positions? Maybe form a "counter-setup" around the weapon spawn... giving the opposing team an easy grab at the rockets, but a very difficult time to leave with them?

In maps I've created myself, I've used this technique in conjunction with several starting spawn points. It mixes up the initial moments of the game, ala Halo 1. You have to quickly asses the situation and form a strategy on the fly, rather than using the same tried and true method that every single team out there knows and uses themselves.

I was just about to post that the power weapons / ups would probably not spawn at start to allow teams to vie for control and then use that control to get a leg up on the weapons.

[ash55]

Hai guyz. I dunno if anyone has attempted it yet but I just finished a version of Ghost Town with the atrium sealed off. I used the doors and many save/quit attempts to get everything as flat as I could.

LINK to map (http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?h3fileid=31759418)

PICS:
Picture One (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760506)
Picture Two (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760530)
Picture Three (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760609)
Picture Four (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760709)

So if anyone wants to get forging on this thing to achieve good spawns and weapon placement etc. I've just saved you the trouble of blocking out the atrium if you want to use this (and if you don't have it already), good luck.

[Master Dictator]

Hai guyz. I dunno if anyone has attempted it yet but I just finished a version of Ghost Town with the atrium sealed off. I used the doors and many save/quit attempts to get everything as flat as I could.

LINK to map (http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?h3fileid=31759418)

PICS:
Picture One (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760506)
Picture Two (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760530)
Picture Three (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760609)
Picture Four (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760709)

So if anyone wants to get forging on this thing to achieve good spawns and weapon placement etc. I've just saved you the trouble of blocking out the atrium if you want to use this (and if you don't have it already), good luck.
<3
ash for forum moderator?!

[KrAyZiE]

<3
ash for forum moderator?!

...

What?

[fabolousrmx]

Looks interesting

[Status]

Has anybody made a "canvas" to make maps on Avalanche yet? Is it still plausible?

[SnaKKer]

Has anybody made a "canvas" to make maps on Avalanche yet? Is it still plausible?

There are all of those power walls that you can't walk through, you can use them to box in an area or make ramps/floors. I saw someone turn the cavern into a 1v1 level using those walls to build a floor, so I think it is definitely possible to use some areas of Avalanche.

[Sidek]

You could make a 2v2 or 1v1 map in the Grav lift cavern.It would be flat because nothing would be there.But first we would need to block off the grav lifts.... a 2v2 map does not need grav lifts.

[-Champloo-]

I guess no one wants to try and make Damnation out of Avalanche? Just close off a section at the death drops.

[Y1N]

ahh champloo you have 666 posts... quick post!!!

[Chuckles123]

Sounds sweet. I'll test maps if you ever need a tester.

vBonchow

[Hibachi10]

Hai guyz. I dunno if anyone has attempted it yet but I just finished a version of Ghost Town with the atrium sealed off. I used the doors and many save/quit attempts to get everything as flat as I could.

LINK to map (http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?h3fileid=31759418)

PICS:
Picture One (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760506)
Picture Two (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760530)
Picture Three (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760609)
Picture Four (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760709)

So if anyone wants to get forging on this thing to achieve good spawns and weapon placement etc. I've just saved you the trouble of blocking out the atrium if you want to use this (and if you don't have it already), good luck.
Wow, judging by the pics it looks like you did an awesome job!

[sendernode]

nice work...haven't seen you around since that asym map...good to see you're still forging

Hai guyz. I dunno if anyone has attempted it yet but I just finished a version of Ghost Town with the atrium sealed off. I used the doors and many save/quit attempts to get everything as flat as I could.

LINK to map (http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?h3fileid=31759418)

PICS:
Picture One (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760506)
Picture Two (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760530)
Picture Three (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760609)
Picture Four (http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/screenshot_viewer_popup.aspx?gamertag=ash55&ssid=31760709)

So if anyone wants to get forging on this thing to achieve good spawns and weapon placement etc. I've just saved you the trouble of blocking out the atrium if you want to use this (and if you don't have it already), good luck.

[xj4gx]

MLG Sadistation

DOWNLOAD HERE SadiSTation (SLOT 5) (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)


Hey! I'm proud to present my lattest map: MLG Sadistation. By: x J4G x
This map is 100% compatible with all MLG gametypes, although, it was thought-up for TS and Multi-Flag.
It is basically a Midship styled symetrical map consisting 2 identical bases and 2 different towers.

Weapon Spawn Times

-Sniper Rifle : Like all the other MLG maps, the sniper has a specific spawn timer
TS, KOTH and Ball : Start, 12:26, 9:53, 7:20, 4:47 and 2:14
CTF : Start, 27:26, 24:53, 22:20. 19:47, 17:14 and then goes on with regular timer

-OverShield : 180secs (3 Mins)

-BRs : 10 secs

-Carbines : 90 secs

-Grenades : 30 secs

Gametypes Required
-MLG TS v4
-MLG CTF Ons v4
-MLG King v4
-MLG Ball v4


PICS:

Blue Base

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/BlueBase.jpg

Overview

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/Overview.jpg

Green Tower

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/GreenTower.jpg

Yellow Tower

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/YellowTower.jpg


MORE PICS HERE (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)

Video:

Walktrough : http://vimeo.com/946053



DOWNLOAD HERE SadiSTation (SLOT 5) (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)

So thanks for trying it you won't be disapointed!!!!!

Please leave some feedbacks (Even the negative ones)
and also please give some suggestions!!!

Thanks again!

Special thanks to Upsilon

[-NaStY-]

MLG Sadistation

DOWNLOAD HERE SadiSTation (SLOT 5) (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)


Hey! I'm proud to present my lattest map: MLG Sadistation. By: x J4G x
This map is 100% compatible with all MLG gametypes, although, it was thought-up for TS and Multi-Flag.
It is basically a Midship styled symetrical map consisting 2 identical bases and 2 different towers.

Weapon Spawn Times

-Sniper Rifle : Like all the other MLG maps, the sniper has a specific spawn timer
TS, KOTH and Ball : Start, 12:26, 9:53, 7:20, 4:47 and 2:14
CTF : Start, 27:26, 24:53, 22:20. 19:47, 17:14 and then goes on with regular timer

-OverShield : 180secs (3 Mins)

-BRs : 10 secs

-Carbines : 90 secs

-Grenades : 30 secs

Gametypes Required
-MLG TS v4
-MLG CTF Ons v4
-MLG King v4
-MLG Ball v4


PICS:

Blue Base

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/BlueBase.jpg

Overview

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/Overview.jpg

Green Tower

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/GreenTower.jpg

Yellow Tower

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll233/xj4gx/YellowTower.jpg


MORE PICS HERE (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)

Video:

Walktrough : http://vimeo.com/946053



DOWNLOAD HERE SadiSTation (SLOT 5) (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=x%20J4G%20x)

So thanks for trying it you won't be disapointed!!!!!

Please leave some feedbacks (Even the negative ones)
and also please give some suggestions!!!

Thanks again!

Special thanks to Upsilon


The geometry looks amazing on this map! I'm not a fan of the 2 base symmetrical design, but your individual areas are really compelling. Your use of barriers is great, I love the diamond area, and your geo's are clean. I especially like where there's a downward ramp, and then a small walkway passing over the bottom of it that connects the two walls on either side of the ramp. Not to mention it's a walkway made of wall that was geo'd in to the ground :D

[That-DAM-n00b]

I'll have to check that map out, but the only problem with stacking the barriers, is they are destructible, and that can obviously cause problems.

[-NaStY-]

I'll have to check that map out, but the only problem with stacking the barriers, is they are destructible, and that can obviously cause problems.

The main structure, when squeezed between immovables or immovable and floor, will always remain unmoved. All that happens is some debris falls which you actually don't even interact with, unlike, say, the rocks on Beaver Creek.

[Master Dictator]

The main structure, when squeezed between immovables or immovable and floor, will always remain unmoved. All that happens is some debris falls which you actually don't even interact with, unlike, say, the rocks on Beaver Creek.
I hated those rocks with a passion...when you wanted to be sneaky, they exposed you, when you were trying to be exposed they hid you. When you trying to be smooth you get stuck on them. When your trying to knock them off they fall on you teammates, then they get fustrated cause some fking rocks are getting them killed cause they cant move....:shock: its a vicous cycle

[-Ender-]

I hated those rocks with a passion...when you wanted to be sneaky, they exposed you, when you were trying to be exposed they hid you. When you trying to be smooth you get stuck on them. When your trying to knock them off they fall on you teammates, then they get fustrated cause some fking rocks are getting them killed cause they cant move....:shock: its a vicous cycle

Or in Sheney's montage (I think) he picked up rockets and shot one right as a nade from the other team bounced the rocks in his face and he suicided. lol

[Heej]

Is it safe to say that this thread is dead? I for one would be very sad to see it happen because I check this thread basically everyday to see if anyone has any new ideas for a community map. How is development on Nasty's maps going? If this thread is indeed done, at the very least it would make me feel better to see how his maps are coming along. Because from his descriptions they seem to be not only aesthetically pleasing but also truly sound maps that offers everything a competitive map needs.

[Mephisto]

Is it safe to say that this thread is dead? I for one would be very sad to see it happen because I check this thread basically everyday to see if anyone has any new ideas for a community map. How is development on Nasty's maps going? If this thread is indeed done, at the very least it would make me feel better to see how his maps are coming along. Because from his descriptions they seem to be not only aesthetically pleasing but also truly sound maps that offers everything a competitive map needs.
Im not sure if nasty is still making that map, but go check out Legacy and The Hangout. I recommend playing 2v2 on Hangout, im not sure if 4v4 is any good. Both of those maps are great

[-Champloo-]

I've got a few maps in the works.

And by in the works, I mean on paper. lol

I might try and do some sketchup, but idk if I'll be any good with it.

[That-DAM-n00b]

Overdrive from it's pictures looks like it has a lot of potential as far as a 2 base formula goes, but I'm what I'm really looking forward to, is a cleaned up version of saboaths map.

[BlackDeath10]

one thing that i have found about forge maps that continues to frusterate me is that people download maps that do not serve a pure competitive bases. I understand the reasonings for this but i still find it a shame that some of the great competitive maps are going unoiticed. people download maps that they will never play seriesly on but rather just get a map they will never use but just think it looks cool. when it comes right down to it a map that just looks cool is easier to make than a map that is actaully made for true competitive battle. just frusterateing that the real talent is going unoiticed, not saying that my maps are the best

[SaLoT]

one thing that i have found about forge maps that continues to frusterate me is that people download maps that do not serve a pure competitive bases. I understand the reasonings for this but i still find it a shame that some of the great competitive maps are going unoiticed. people download maps that they will never play seriesly on but rather just get a map they will never use but just think it looks cool. when it comes right down to it a map that just looks cool is easier to make than a map that is actaully made for true competitive battle. just frusterateing that the real talent is going unoiticed, not saying that my maps are the best


Some people don't play this seriously.. They download maps because they like them, not because there competitive..

[-Champloo-]

Overdrive from it's pictures looks like it has a lot of potential as far as a 2 base formula goes, but I'm what I'm really looking forward to, is a cleaned up version of saboaths map.
My Sentiments exactly.

[BlackDeath10]

Some people don't play this seriously.. They download maps because they like them, not because there competitive..


and that was the whole point of my arguement, series maps get less notice than screw around maps

[SaLoT]

and that was the whole point of my arguement, series maps get less notice than screw around maps


Does it really matter? I mean if MLG likes a map KC will Get a hold of the Creator....

[BlackDeath10]

Does it really matter? I mean if MLG likes a map KC will Get a hold of the Creator....

im not talking about maps becomeing official MLG maps, i just think other maps that are comeptitive should get noticed more not just mine(or maby mine are not that good) but i have seen other maps that are very good competitively go unoticed, and hard work like that going unoticed is wrong