Using a modded box to increase forge precision / speed?

[-NaStY-]

This is an idea that Zanno brought up, but I thought I would make a thread to discuss this possibility and talk about the perks and kinks that might arise.


What I'm talking about, of course, is using a modded xbox where you can look at the map files in order to forge foundry. The great thing about this idea is twofold:

1. You wouldn't be accomplishing anything you couldn't do without a modded box, so there wouldn't be a big ruckus about it and it probably wouldn't be impossible for MLG to use maps made this way.

2. It would be much, much MUCH easier than making a modded map in Halo 1 or 2.


The key is, all you'd really be doing is playing around with the parameters of a few objects. You could go in to the code and basically manually type in the position and orientation of the object, perhaps its spawn time, and you'd be good to go.

Since you're directly editing a variation of Foundry, you're not doing this inside the boundaries of Forge. That means that geo-ing wouldn't even be an issue. If you wanted a box through a wall, you could just position it that way with coordinates, because there'd be no environment with crappy physics to stop you.

Imagine the ease of use and precision with which one could create a map. The most complicated map would be done in 2 days at twice the precision of a forged version.


If there's any possibility that somebody with knowledge of modding could pull something like this off, it by all means must be actively pursued.

[HikaruX]

Awesome Idea

[Zanno]

You wouldn't even need a mod box, I think. You'd just need an action replay to hook your memory card up to it.

The H3 Modding community is being really quiet about any information they've discovered so far. They don't want a repeat of Halo 2, it was an honest accident on their part. It didn't occur to them that modded gametypes worked on XBL until the info was already public.

The only true modding I've seen is the zero sec respawn mod, and I've heard rumors that it's possible to edit equipment duration by modding gametype data. If this info were to go public it'd be really cool, we could cut the bubble duration to say, 5 seconds instead of 20, balancing it out for competitive play. That might still not be viable, but a 1-3 sec regenerator could definitely have a place in MLG...who knows what other mystery options are lurking inside the gametype and map data. The one thing I'd like to know above all else is if it's possible to bump the grenade count back to 4, and it's possible to mod the autoaim constants like it was in H2. Cheat modders just cranked it to max, but my own mini-mod-lan got rid of it entirely in most gametypes.

[Zanno]

By hopping around Halomods really quickly it looks like they probably know how to do this but won't talk:
http://forums.halomods.com/viewtopic.php?t=77207

[SaLoT]

since the halo 2 days i have created a few maps for halo 2 that i used in the killtrocity map pack...

i have done this from color scheme to taking models out of single player to make it a multi player map...

now since you can download foundry in different looks from users it is possible... like the mods you see on high ground..

[Baron Saturday]

This would be a very favourable way of working.

Would it be possible to mod forge just so that it was the same, but without the physics active?
This would mean that you could place any object within any object within foundry, including the map geometry.

[Sidek]

I have a modded map on my box. Now, it's last resort. But. They put the wheel somewhere else(albeit unmoving) Those toggleable nonmovable barriers elsewhere and ripped MC and Arby from campaign and put them as killable objects nobody controls.I'll recommend it to anyone who wants it. However it does have insane splitscreen lag.

[Mephisto]

By hopping around Halomods really quickly it looks like they probably know how to do this but won't talk:
http://forums.halomods.com/viewtopic.php?t=77207
honestly, all ive ever seen on halomods is a bunch of cache editing and hearsay. they've never even made a video of an actual "mod", they only have videos of cache editing. it makes me laugh sometimes- i wont believe it till i see it. it sounds like theyre bull****ting

[RELLIK PIR]

If what you say could work that way then ever map atm could be at least 10% better because everything would be perfect and take a 1/4 of the time.

[Mephisto]

the only problem is a little thing called checksums. when you load up a film/map it says"verifying", that is halo3 checking to see if the file is authentic.

let's say you want to add a box to a map that already has 2 boxes. a checksum is the sum of bits and pieces of a file. so the original file would go something like this:
1+1=2

the 1's being boxes and 2 being the checksum

so you add a box:
1+1+1=2

no, you would have a corrupt file and it would be unplayable.

figuring out the checksum is the hardest part of editing and gamesave. forged maps are basically gamesaves. so yes, it is possible, but it would be very hard.

[Zanno]

now that i think about, given the comical amount of elitism and ego flailing over on halomods i wouldn't be surprised if you were correct about them lying about having a working resigner

[-Ender-]

Wow, I wish I had a modded xbox cause of all the ideas I am coming up with now, all the changes I would make. Make Narrows a bit wider, so the gameplay is a little less linear; block off the bottom of Isolation and add towers and cover up top; add a death boundry on Foundry; GET RID OF THAT DAMN CRANE... The possibilities are endless.

Solution: MLG pays hackers to rip H3 apart and add loads of new stuff into Forge.

Only if that's legal, of course.
>_>

<_<

[Fritzster]

This is an idea that Zanno brought up, but I thought I would make a thread to discuss this possibility and talk about the perks and kinks that might arise.


What I'm talking about, of course, is using a modded xbox where you can look at the map files in order to forge foundry. The great thing about this idea is twofold:

1. You wouldn't be accomplishing anything you couldn't do without a modded box, so there wouldn't be a big ruckus about it and it probably wouldn't be impossible for MLG to use maps made this way.

2. It would be much, much MUCH easier than making a modded map in Halo 1 or 2.


The key is, all you'd really be doing is playing around with the parameters of a few objects. You could go in to the code and basically manually type in the position and orientation of the object, perhaps its spawn time, and you'd be good to go.

Since you're directly editing a variation of Foundry, you're not doing this inside the boundaries of Forge. That means that geo-ing wouldn't even be an issue. If you wanted a box through a wall, you could just position it that way with coordinates, because there'd be no environment with crappy physics to stop you.

Imagine the ease of use and precision with which one could create a map. The most complicated map would be done in 2 days at twice the precision of a forged version.


If there's any possibility that somebody with knowledge of modding could pull something like this off, it by all means must be actively pursued.
Nah,

Bad idea. Leave the obvious work to the good Forgers.

[zakboo]

Nah,

Bad idea. Leave the obvious work to the good Forgers.




Mlg and Bungie won't accept modded maps anyway, at least nothing outside of what's possible in Forge. So don't bother wasting your precious time.......

[-NaStY-]

You guys are amazing readers. :)



The point is that you use edit the placement of objects - nothing more or less. The map isn't modded, its just made using a mod. The objects don't go in places you couldn't of gotten them in forge. So the only thing that changes is that you can enter coordinates manually to create fine-tuned precision and speed of creation.

It has nothing to do with a "modded map". Bungie wouldn't know the difference, because all it is is a save file.

[zakboo]

You guys are amazing readers. :)



The point is that you use edit the placement of objects - nothing more or less. The map isn't modded, its just made using a mod. The objects don't go in places you couldn't of gotten them in forge. So the only thing that changes is that you can enter coordinates manually to create fine-tuned precision and speed of creation.

It has nothing to do with a "modded map". Bungie wouldn't know the difference, because all it is is a save file.



:bow: Your an amazing reader as well!!!!! :bow: LOL

Go back and read my previous post.... the second half of my first sentence.

[Mephisto]

You guys are amazing readers. :)



The point is that you use edit the placement of objects - nothing more or less. The map isn't modded, its just made using a mod. The objects don't go in places you couldn't of gotten them in forge. So the only thing that changes is that you can enter coordinates manually to create fine-tuned precision and speed of creation.

It has nothing to do with a "modded map". Bungie wouldn't know the difference, because all it is is a save file.

this post gave me an idea. you could theoretically:
1. Plan your map withe the sketcup foundry template, for the sole purpose of knowing the exact materials needed
2. Place the exact number of pieces you needed anywhere on the map (with halo3's forge) it doesnt matter where
3. Export the map variant to your pc/modded box
4. position the pieces

i THINK this would bypass any checksums, since youre not actually adding anything. could be wrong though

...actually now that i think about it, that probably wont work...

[Endorsed]

honestly, all ive ever seen on halomods is a bunch of cache editing and hearsay. they've never even made a video of an actual "mod", they only have videos of cache editing. it makes me laugh sometimes- i wont believe it till i see it. it sounds like theyre bull****ting

What about the code at the third page? I don't now anything about modding but that guy looks like he got it.

http://forums.halomods.com/viewtopic.php?t=77207&start=40

[Zanno]

this post gave me an idea. you could theoretically:
i THINK this would bypass any checksums, since youre not actually adding anything. could be wrong though

...actually now that i think about it, that probably wont work...no, checksums are based on on the file's bits, it basically compresses their entire file down to a number. changing a single bit will often make the checksum appear wildly different.