Starcraft 2

[chromefrog]

Who thinks MLG will pick up Starcraft 2 when it comes out. I think the choice is very obvious. Can't wait to see what games MLG picks up in the future.

[whateverworks]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.

[BLiTZ]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.

This man speaks the truth. Starcraft 2 is one of those games that just wouldn't be as great for the league because of its American fanbase. Honestly I don't see SC2 as an MLG game, but we'll see.

The game will be great and competitive though, don't get me wrong ;)

[TekMoliGy]

they will for sure that is why they added wow to get in good with blizzard

[popfizz]

I

have no idea. But my first instinct is to say "no."

Then again, MLG just picked up WoW....hm... O_o

[Ryot]

MLG picked up WoW for popularity. I really hope SC2 can be popular here in America so MLG PC can get a real competitive PC game ;)

Fyi, there is currently one American progamer in Korea right now working his way into proleague.

[colincancer814]

i hope they will, im a big fan and casual player of the starcraft series
hopefully the launch of the sequel will spark enough interest to make it happen
I would say that now, especially after the branch into PC gaming would make it more likely cause they already have the equipment to do it, all they need is the community support

I'd hate to see this turn into another Shadowrun, where the game is highly competitive but there's no community fanbase to make it financially feasible for MLG

[PinkFloyd4z0]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.
because there is no tournaments here and nobody wants to travel to south korea

starcraft II will be huge and it could be huge for mlg getting into a global market


top 50 starcraft players wont be top 50 starcraft II players


i really dont understand why you all think it wont make it.... american rts gamers are struggling to find a competetive rts..... cnc3 failed horribly red alert 3 will also fail ..... starcraft II is something everyone is counting on and were counting on blizzard a company who has probly the best track record in gaming especially pc games especially in online support ....... i use to play a lot of rts games but theres no tournys and theres no money in it so now i play fps on the console, but if it does get a online ladder on gamebattles im sold and im updating my pc .... rts> FPS


some will be yes , but its a new game a new game engine, its 3d its basically completely different controls to how the original was.

[TekMoliGy]

because there is no tournaments here and nobody wants to travel to south korea

.
yea that is basically said perfectly

[bosoxdanc]

I doubt MLG will pick it up, because I doubt MLG PC will last that long. Most PC gamers I play with aren't very fond of console gamers.

[disposeablehero]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.

True, but most North American Starcraft players don't have the opprotunities that many of the Europeans and Koreans do to play the game competitively. MLG very well serve as grounds for these players to improve their game and motivate them to start seriously competing on a global scale.

We'll see though :) .

[eNtitY~]

because there is no tournaments here and nobody wants to travel to south korea

starcraft II will be huge and it could be huge for mlg getting into a global market


top 50 starcraft players wont be top 50 starcraft II players


i really dont understand why you all think it wont make it.... american rts gamers are struggling to find a competetive rts..... cnc3 failed horribly red alert 3 will also fail ..... starcraft II is something everyone is counting on and were counting on blizzard a company who has probly the best track record in gaming especially pc games especially in online support ....... i use to play a lot of rts games but theres no tournys and theres no money in it so now i play fps on the console, but if it does get a online ladder on gamebattles im sold and im updating my pc .... rts> FPS


some will be yes , but its a new game a new game engine, its 3d its basically completely different controls to how the original was.

Thats an idiotic statement. For those who continue to play, yes they will. But who knows SC2 might not even get adopted by the Korean Pro leagues, and they could just continue to play SC.


MLG hosting SC competitions wouldn't be a bad thing, but they couldn't claim they have the best in the world playing most likely, because like most said those are Korean players who have dedicated everything to be where they are. Maybe after a few years of SC on the circuit and if it steadily gained power and compeition it could eventually be a leader in SC competative play.

They called up GSpoT to sort of be the face of MLG Canada, they could callup Testie to do the same for SC :P

[iHyP3]

SC was my first game, I got pretty good at it before I quit.
If SC2 goes MLG, I'll have to pick it up again.

But those guys are right, American players just don't compare to Koreans.

[360killview]

after all the ability's that every unit in every race has which looks and are really awesome. from what i saw from of what SC2 brings is opportunity to the table of any team. i look way forward getting into this one since i didnt get into the first one.

[Bumzors]

I don't see why it wouldn't get at least a shot on the circuit. The fact that American gateways are still packing 15+ public channels 10 years after the release tells me that when it hits, it's going to be huge. Maybe not Halo or WoW huge, but I would say easily more players than say Rainbow Six or Gears. As long as Blizzard maintains the elements that made the original so great, people will be playing this game just as long, if not longer than the original. The new map editor is supposed to be even vastly superior to the Warcraft 3 editor, which spun off the amazingly competitive DoTA mods. The possibilities with this editor are going to literally endless.

Also, Blizzard has THE best game support out of any of the other game developers/publishers. Period. Starcraft just got another patch in last December. 10 years and they are still supporting that community. Diablo 2 got support 5 years after it's release. Not to mention the fact that every game they have put out gets an expansion pack a year or so down the line.

Finally, Blizzard actually listens to its community via their forums. They released a picture of the new siege tank a few months ago, and people absolutely hated it. Fans jumped on the forums and told them how much they hated the look, and Blizzard went ahead and redesigned it. They also responded to other such outcries form the community like the removal of the iconic Firebat, the elimination of the Medic and giving the heal ability to dropships. They take in information about what fans want to see and try to fit them into the game while still maintaining balance and gameplay. They value gameplay over graphics and gimmicks. Any of the interviews with the art design lead clearly show this.

Basically, it's going to be huge, it's going to be competitive, and it's going to be supported. If something doesn't work out, it'll get patched up. Unlike some games *cough* Halo 3 *cough*.

[Ryot]

^ Yeah man, Blizzard for the win. Also SC2 will have a much easier user interface which should really help the casual crowd/newer players get into the game (while not taking away too much from the game's skill).

[-Champloo-]

I have a feeling they will pick it up.

I think SC2 is the next major, major PC game release that would satisfy the blackbirds MLG is using. I know HP donated the Blackbirds, but still, they're using those beasts on WoW and WoW alone? I don't think so... I think HP wants them used for a game that will really show how great the blackbirds are, and I think SC2 might be that game.

Just a theory.

[OneOutOfManyMore]

Seems a little early to be speculating about it being picked up imo. To my knowledge there is not even a release date yet? Don't hold me on that and if anybody knows otherwise please post for me.

[-Champloo-]

Seems a little early to be speculating about it being picked up imo. To my knowledge there is not even a release date yet? Don't hold me on that and if anybody knows otherwise please post for me.
pfft, noob with the search button link in your sig...

There's an internet search button I like to call "google", you should use it.

lol. <3

[TWISTED-BULLET]

We'll see, if the game lives up to expectation its gonna be a great title.

[OneOutOfManyMore]

pfft, noob with the search button link in your sig...

There's an internet search button I like to call "google", you should use it.

lol. <3
Google? Never heard of it. Sounds like something dirty, tsk tsk.

I did search though, right after I posted, lol. I am a little sad that Blizzard hasn't given us a date yet. GameStop says 12/3 though, and their guesses are usually at least decent. Still, I have been waiting 10 years Blizzard, a release date would be nice -_-.

[PenzeL]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.

Hmm..well yes and no. Most U.S TOP PLAYERS actually MOVE to korea to compete. Players like Grr who's canadian actually moved to korea just to play professionally. They did a document on tv about it a long time ago.

[colincancer814]

Google? Never heard of it. Sounds like something dirty, tsk tsk.

I did search though, right after I posted, lol. I am a little sad that Blizzard hasn't given us a date yet. GameStop says 12/3 though, and their guesses are usually at least decent. Still, I have been waiting 10 years Blizzard, a release date would be nice -_-.
unless its still at the point where its not ready, and having a release date would be questionable, because the only thing worse than not having a release date after 10 years is having a release date after 10 years and then having that date changed

[Retaken]

I don't see a reason to not bring SC2 to MLG JUST because Asian countries have better competitive following. Why can't us North Americans have fun and compete in our own league? I mean sure, we probably won't be the best but does that really matter?

[colincancer814]

I don't see a reason to not bring SC2 to MLG JUST because Asian countries have better competitive following. Why can't us North Americans have fun and compete in our own league? I mean sure, we probably won't be the best but does that really matter?
probably because not only do they have better people, they also have a larger following.
I love starcraft, but the thing that may hold them back is that there might not be a competitive following in America

[Retaken]

probably because not only do they have better people, they also have a larger following.
I love starcraft, but the thing that may hold them back is that there might not be a competitive following in America

How big of a competitive following could WoW possibly have? (Yeah I been 1900+ rating, but no way in hell i'd travel for an event >_>... but thats just me).


Either way MLG should at least try it, I'd know I'd figure out a way to get to an event + SC is a very spectator friendly sport which we apparently love

[disposeablehero]

probably because not only do they have better people, they also have a larger following.
I love starcraft, but the thing that may hold them back is that there might not be a competitive following in America

They have a larger following in Korea because they have a larger incentive to compete. We don't have the pro leagues they have, therefore not as big of a following or as skilled of players. If MLG were to pick up the title and capitalize on the interest the PC gaming community has in it states side it would spark the competitive SC2 community in NA. Would it be as big as Korea? No, but it would still be huge if things were done right.

[Muftobration]

The way I see it, people who are competitive will go to where the competition is. We don't have a competitive SC following in the US because we don't have any high-profile competitions. If MLG were to pick it up, many of the current members would probably give it a try. MLG is an established competitive community, so I think that introducing SC2 to it would be the best way to start a US competitive scene. As for whether or not it would work, I think it would. I don't have any backup for that thinking; it's just a feeling.

[colincancer814]

They have a larger following in Korea because they have a larger incentive to compete. We don't have the pro leagues they have, therefore not as big of a following or as skilled of players. If MLG were to pick up the title and capitalize on the interest the PC gaming community has in it states side it would spark the competitive SC2 community in NA. Would it be as big as Korea? No, but it would still be huge if things were done right.
I disagree. Games have failed in competition even if players do have an incentive to compete. For example, there's Shadowrun in MLG. All the tournaments got covered, there was prize money, but in the end I think only about 4-5 teams competed in the finals. The players in it were skilled and MLG is a huge league, but Shadowrun tournaments in MLG still failed. Same with other games in the early MLG days, like Madden and Soul Calibur.
Hopefully Starcraft wont go the way Shadowrun did, but it certainly is a possibility.

[Retaken]

I disagree. Games have failed in competition even if players do have an incentive to compete. For example, there's Shadowrun in MLG. All the tournaments got covered, there was prize money, but in the end I think only about 4-5 teams competed in the finals. The players in it were skilled and MLG is a huge league, but Shadowrun tournaments in MLG still failed. Same with other games in the early MLG days, like Madden and Soul Calibur.
Hopefully Starcraft wont go the way Shadowrun did, but it certainly is a possibility.


I understand your point, but we're talking Starcraft here, not Shadowrun


I mean no offense to the players of Shadowrun, but I hardly even heard of the game before MLG picked it up, bits and things here but not that much. Yes it's a good skillful game, but we all know that SC is more "known"

[Liqur]

I understand your point, but we're talking Starcraft here, not Shadowrun


I mean no offense to the players of Shadowrun, but I hardly even heard of the game before MLG picked it up, bits and things here but not that much. Yes it's a good skillful game, but we all know that SC is more "known"

u hve a great point, SC has been around for years, and its still one of the most played games on pc. im almost positive that there will be a big following if they add SC2 to the circuit. i know ill go. and i kno a great deal of my sc buddies who will go, and there buddies, etc.... there will be a following. SC is way more competive then WoW. i thnk they should add it.

sorry about the grammer and mis spellin, got to much crap to do to take my time :)

[KiLLtacularrrrrrrrrr]

how about warcraft 4 :(

[KaRiZzMa]

I hope they bring it in.

If Starcraft 2 will ever come out.

[ArC_man]

i don't, it's not that good of a game

[-MichigaN-]

I hope MLG picks up SC2

[Strotnium]

SC has been out for such a long time. I think that's one of the reasons they didn't pick it up. Think about this though. SC II is brand new, Why wouldn't MLG pick it up? If they are wanting to expand their community on the PC side this would be their perfect opportunity. That's like saying if there was a CS that was alot different then source or 1.6 that it wouldn't get picked up. Please pick up SC II : /

[sti-kaotick]

Where to begin...I'll start with arc_man by saying GTFO. not that good of a game?! are you stoned? hell even stoned i thought it was stellar @-@. a good rts is badly needed, as mentioned before C&C 3 was a flop (no surpirse to me EA FTL) and even though it was i still picked it up just for fun and to sharpen my skills for SC2. why do ppl put down north american rts players? when EA had there little ladder tourney going i ended up in the top 25 before i gave up becasue of all the lamer ladder loss dodging (i reported many a player mostly euro)

a few others had the right idea about having a reason to compete for. that idea would work well for most POPULAR games. i read the shadowrun flop story, but to be honest i cant even find any copies of shadowrun anymore, so i guess it had more of a small cult following? (i played both versions for snes and genesis back in the day and have been looking for it and cant find it)

Ima go the way of the Blizzard.....IT WILL BE READY WHEN ITS READY!!!! As much as i want a annoucement i dont want the half @55 crapfest that EA put on the shelf (c&c3).....I put my trust in blizz and will be impatiently waiting SC2's release.

[TWISTED-BULLET]

This will be the 1st Starcraft game I've brought, and if Blizzards track record of greatness and support comes through, Starcraft will be incredible. The game already looks very polished from the vids I've seen, can't wait to for the release.

[colincancer814]

This will be the 1st Starcraft game I've brought, and if Blizzards track record of greatness and support comes through, Starcraft will be incredible. The game already looks very polished from the vids I've seen, can't wait to for the release.
I recommend playing the original too, its probably only around 10 bucks at a wal mart by now

[MoTiVE_x]

gamestop is saying 12/3/2008

[AdviCe]

The first starcraft is still played at a competitive level in South Korea. There is still a HUGE following not only in Asia, but in the rest of the world also. If MLG picks up and MMO of all things, they would be stupid to pass up the opportunity to host StarCraft:2 tournaments. StarCraft:2 will be just as good, if not better than SC:BW. If I were Sundance I would be making boat loads from PC tournaments.. Especially after CPL died off for good.

[Azrael.]

North American starcraft compared to European and Asian starcraft is a joke. The top US starcraft players would never beat any of the 50 best korean starcraft players. So unless they have a very high prize pool that drags the top players in the world to the events I would not count on it.
The Koreans would gladly come to America they come over every year whenever Blizzard holds World Championships for Starcraft. The Korean players have teams they are on and there teams are sponsored by T.V company's, cell phone company's and many other sponsors that would gladly pay there trip to America.

There have been some American players that can beat Korean players.

Froz, Rekrul, Assem, (SG)yosh, and [SW]day.

Those are the most well known players in America. Assem and Rekrul actually got sponsored to go to south korea and competed on a team along side Koreans for a couple years. They were good but not near as good as the top elite korean players.

Just remember that the World Cyber Games was first made in South Korea and there main game they focussed on was Starcraft. The game has Garnished over millions and millions of fans and still has 50,000-100,000 people playing on a daily bases on Battle.net and what is intriguing about that estimate is that the game is over 10 years old, that is very good for a game that old. Also the fact that I can go to Wal-Mart or Gamestop and still find starcraft on the shelf shows that there is still a huge community and that a lot of people still buy and play the game.

But the opinion that the fan base is not big over here and only in Korea and in Europe is true to a certain extent. The reason I think it is not as popular in America is because there were not many tournaments for it, but the first couple years of the games release there were some and there were lots of people that attended.The game did kind of fade away in America but it is still considered probably the best RTS game ever made.

It would be interesting if MLG did pick Starcraft 2 up, but I see that as a maybe.

[StrwBryUzi]

The Koreans would gladly come to America they come over every year whenever Blizzard holds World Championships for Starcraft. The Korean players have teams they are on and there teams are sponsored by T.V company's, cell phone company's and many other sponsors that would gladly pay there trip to America.

There have been some American players that can beat Korean players.

Froz, Rekrul, Assem, (SG)yosh, and [SW]day.

Those are the most well known players in America. Assem and Rekrul actually got sponsored to go to south korea and competed on a team along side Koreans for a couple years. They were good but not near as good as the top elite korean players.

Just remember that the World Cyber Games was first made in South Korea and there main game they focussed on was Starcraft. The game has Garnished over millions and millions of fans and still has 50,000-100,000 people playing on a daily bases on Battle.net and what is intriguing about that estimate is that the game is over 10 years old, that is very good for a game that old. Also the fact that I can go to Wal-Mart or Gamestop and still find starcraft on the shelf shows that there is still a huge community and that a lot of people still buy and play the game.

But the opinion that the fan base is not big over here and only in Korea and in Europe is true to a certain extent. The reason I think it is not as popular in America is because there were not many tournaments for it, but the first couple years of the games release there were some and there were lots of people that attended.The game did kind of fade away in America but it is still considered probably the best RTS game ever made.

It would be interesting if MLG did pick Starcraft 2 up, but I see that as a maybe.

yosh is just nuts with his T, he will do crazy builds to counter things that you would think impossible. If SC2 is as competitive as SC:BW, then not only would some of the best Korean players come over, but Europes player would too. Mondragon, Draco, Drievan, alot more.......I know for a fact that a bunch of Canadian player would come over. Idra is currently in Korea training with MBC it think, and Rekrul is still there, along with a Canadian player whos name has slipped my mine.

[whateverworks]

Dude if they were to make sc2 tournaments they would either have to make it foreigner only(foreigner in starcraft means non koreans) or koreans only. Koreans practice with the best in the world for 12-15 hours a day while foreigners mostly play 2-8 hours a day.

[OneOutOfManyMore]

Dude if they were to make sc2 tournaments they would either have to make it foreigner only(foreigner in starcraft means non koreans) or koreans only. Koreans practice with the best in the world for 12-15 hours a day while foreigners mostly play 2-8 hours a day.
That sort of thing is why the Korean SC scene and the foreigner scene are not more closely interlinked. Dividing the tournaments by race/nationality is just ridiculous. One game, one community, shared tournaments. That is how it should be. If this game is as good as the original, I think it will blow up huge. It will be big even if it isnt as good, lol.

[whateverworks]

That sort of thing is why the Korean SC scene and the foreigner scene are not more closely interlinked. Dividing the tournaments by race/nationality is just ridiculous. One game, one community, shared tournaments. That is how it should be. If this game is as good as the original, I think it will blow up huge. It will be big even if it isnt as good, lol.
The koreans would win every single event and no one would go if they were a foreginer just to be eliminated first round by some one whos life is starcraft.

[StrwBryUzi]

The koreans would win every single event and no one would go if they were a foreginer just to be eliminated first round by some one whos life is starcraft.

I don't know, look at the hotdog eating contest out by NY. That Japanese guy won it for a while then that American came in and stole the show. I think if the reall competitive atmosphere reaches the states, along with forgien players (even Koreans) I think that alot off players will catchup to the actuall pros.

[WASTED_SLYTHE]

I'm just wondering, and I haven't had the chance to look it up, but is Starcraft 2 adding a new race, because I do know that zerglings can commit suicide like scourges, now.

[StrwBryUzi]

I'm just wondering, and I haven't had the chance to look it up, but is Starcraft 2 adding a new race, because I do know that zerglings can commit suicide like scourges, now.

Nah, same three races, just you can evolve the zerglings into banelings, which explode and do an aoe damage.

[Azrael.]

yosh is just nuts with his T, he will do crazy builds to counter things that you would think impossible. If SC2 is as competitive as SC:BW, then not only would some of the best Korean players come over, but Europes player would too. Mondragon, Draco, Drievan, alot more.......I know for a fact that a bunch of Canadian player would come over. Idra is currently in Korea training with MBC it think, and Rekrul is still there, along with a Canadian player whos name has slipped my mine.
lol yeah yosh does some crazy ****, I would know, I have played him. He always seems to know what to do.

wow rekrul is still in korea???? what about assem? yeah players like testie is considered one of the top non korean pros in the world. SC2 will be huge =]
Dude if they were to make sc2 tournaments they would either have to make it foreigner only(foreigner in starcraft means non koreans) or koreans only. Koreans practice with the best in the world for 12-15 hours a day while foreigners mostly play 2-8 hours a day.
MLG would just split the tournament into amateur and pro just like they do with every other game, It would be just the same as halo. Theres always the dominant teams in the bracket and occasionally good teams or players come along. So it is very possible to have tournaments for SC, I could actually see MLG spreading to other countries to have tournaments heck they have already expanded to Canada!
I'm just wondering, and I haven't had the chance to look it up, but is Starcraft 2 adding a new race, because I do know that zerglings can commit suicide like scourges, now.
There is still talk about Xel-Naga being added but with Blizzard you never know, they like to surprise people. But there was that little hint about them making a race that was mixed between Zerg and Protoss in that secret mission in BW.

I only time will we know.

[StrwBryUzi]

lol yeah yosh does some crazy ****, I would know, I have played him. He always seems to know what to do.

wow rekrul is still in korea???? what about assem? yeah players like testie is considered one of the top non korean pros in the world. SC2 will be huge =]

MLG would just split the tournament into amateur and pro just like they do with every other game, It would be just the same as halo. Theres always the dominant teams in the bracket and occasionally good teams or players come along. So it is very possible to have tournaments for SC, I could actually see MLG spreading to other countries to have tournaments heck they have already expanded to Canada!

There is still talk about Xel-Naga being added but with Blizzard you never know, they like to surprise people. But there was that little hint about them making a race that was mixed between Zerg and Protoss in that secret mission in BW.

I only time will we know.

But we don't know alot about the Xel-Naga, but that would be sweet!

[Azrael.]

But we don't know alot about the Xel-Naga, but that would be sweet!
Xel-Naga was ancient god like race that created the protoss and the zerg and then the zerg tried to destroy the Xel-Naga, but they went into hiding to get away from the zerg.

This will help you out, get ready to read lol.

The Xel'Naga are an ancient race that has to date only been featured in the lore of the StarCraft series, their only appearances have been in the form of relics. The Xel'Naga play important roles in the backstories to both the Protoss and Zerg, being responsible for manipulating the evolution of the two races, along with an unknown number of other species. It was speculated that a player could control the Xel'Naga in StarCraft II and although this has been firmly denied by Blizzard Entertainment,they have confirmed the Xel'Naga will be featured "in a rather epic tale". Whats funny about blizzard denying, is that they always deny everything. They even denied Starcraft 2 being made and look what was made, Starcraft 2 =OOO

Attributes

The Xel'Naga have not been depicted in any of the video games or novels to date, but play an important part in the backstory of the series in relation to both the Protoss and Zerg. In the manual to StarCraft, the Xel'Naga are described as a race determined to create the perfect lifeform. The Xel'Naga are also stated to have come from another galaxy and to have "seeded and cultivated thousands of various species" in their time.It is this pursuit of purity that leads them to the Protoss, who the Xel'Naga steered the evolution of to achieve the high levels of psionic power and a "purity of form". However, after revealing themselves to their seemingly successful experiment, the Xel'Naga are shunned and eventually attacked by the Protoss.The Xel'Naga consequently start another experiment on the Zerg, pushing for a "purity of essence". However, the Zerg too attack the Xel'Naga, infesting and destroying the greater whole of the race.

Appearances

Although the Xel'Naga do not themselves appear during the novels and the video games, various relics left behind from their legacy are scattered throughout the series. One such relic appears in Brood War, a large temple on the planet Shakuras containing the power to wipe the planet clear of other species. During the course of Brood War, the Protoss activate the temple and use it to destroy all of the Zerg on Shakuras. In addition, other structures have been shown in the series. In the novel Shadow of the Xel'Naga, the three main species fight for control of a large Xel'Naga artifact on the planet Bhekar Ro, but accidentally activate it. The artifact releases a creature incubating in the structure, which proceeds to convert the nearby Xel'Naga–empowered Protoss and Zerg forces into energy for nourishment, before disappearing into space. After this, the novel Firstborn reveals that numerous other similar artifacts are discovered by the Terran Dominion within its borders. The Dominion heir Valerian Mengsk consequently sends an archaeological team under Jake Ramsey to investigate these relics.

[StrwBryUzi]

^^^^ Yes yes, I know this, but what I mean is are we going to control them in single and multi player???

[Azrael.]

^^^^ Yes yes, I know this, but what I mean is are we going to control them in single and multi player???
well that is what is rumored =]

[StrwBryUzi]

well that is what is rumored =]

HMMMMM............nice lol. It will be interesting if they do add another race, but I feel that it would play alot like Protoss.

[Azrael.]

HMMMMM............nice lol. It will be interesting if they do add another race, but I feel that it would play alot like Protoss.
I would see the Xel-Naga like the protoss having very strong units but a lot less and very unique powers since they are a very God like race. I would love to see them in action :)

Also to see what the Xel-Naga look like for once.

[whateverworks]

I don't know, look at the hotdog eating contest out by NY. That Japanese guy won it for a while then that American came in and stole the show. I think if the reall competitive atmosphere reaches the states, along with forgien players (even Koreans) I think that alot off players will catchup to the actuall pros.
Dude do you know about korean starcraft at all? The pros and semi pros practice so much and have they have the best coaches in the world for starcraft that no foreigner will ever ever break top 16. For pros starcraft is their life, its not a hobby its their life they practice at least 10-14 hours a day weeks straight. Also no non korean has ever won a WCG for starcraft.Anyways if SC2 would make the circuit (which it should has its one of the most popular game in the world) the koreans probably wouldnt even go because of contracts and such.

[StrwBryUzi]

Dude do you know about korean starcraft at all? The pros and semi pros practice so much and have they have the best coaches in the world for starcraft that no foreigner will ever ever break top 16. For pros starcraft is their life, its not a hobby its their life they practice at least 10-14 hours a day weeks straight. Also no non korean has ever won a WCG for starcraft.Anyways if SC2 would make the circuit (which it should has its one of the most popular game in the world) the koreans probably wouldnt even go because of contracts and such.

Totally not what I meant there dude. I mean it took an American to win the hotdog contest, so im saying it will take time for a non-Korean player to be great. You picking up what im throwing down?

[Azrael.]

Totally not what I meant there dude. I mean it took an American to win the hotdog contest, so im saying it will take time for a non-Korean player to be great. You picking up what im throwing down?
There is not as many players playing in america that are playing in korea comptetively i mean. If enough people start taking the game serious there could be a lot of good players from america. Just wait and see =]

[sD_Precision]

1. You cannot compare SC and SCII as they will be different games. Saying certain people will dominate a new game before it even comes out is naive. Trust me with this, I've been playing RTS games since I was 6, and I'm 21 now, starting with original CnC and followed the line up until CnC3. I can tell you that the best players in the game were not the best in the new games even though they were similiar.

Each game is different and brings different things to the table. I have played so many RTS games at the highest of level to have a good enough grasp on this. One thing is sure the three main countries for RTS gaming is Germany, Korea, and America and I'm sure these 3 countries would be featured if SC2 comes to MLG. One thing is sure though, if the competition is there, the competition will rise to meet its competitors.

2. I hope that MLG does pickup SC2, which it should. SC2 is going to be huge even in the states, I know many a great RTS player that is going to be playing SC2 from games like AoEIII to CnC RA, to CnC RA2 greats. If they picked up a MMO that is not competitive at all compared to other games on the circuit and games that should be there ala RTS (Which imho is the most competitive gaming culture there is) would be a shame and a let down.

3. MLG needs a RTS game to solidify its lineup and to bring more people into MLG. I hope they do not pickup Halo Wars as I think console RTS games are deluded of their true potential. Keep RTS on PC where its meant to be. You cannot micro and macro properly or fast enough on a console. I remember back in the old days of CnC RA95, competiting at the top levels the amount of clicks and micro needed (Q) was insane and back when I was like 8 doing this I cannot fathom how I managed it lmao. The speed of RTS just cannot be captured on a console.

4. Koreans dominate SC because they have a reason to continue playing for all this time. I'm sure if the incentives were here in America we would have as many good players as the koreans. RTS is still a huge market in america and there are some amazing players here. We are just segmented into too many RTS games like, AoK, AoEIII, CnC 3, EE, etc., if one amazing RTS came out that brought the genre together you would see america at the top competiting with the koreans no doubt and I think SC2 will be the game to do this if blizzard follows through. I for one will be playing this game competitively for quite a while and I am a long time RTS player.

5. If MLG does pick up SC2 there should be MOTW style rotation (Map of the week, which was amazing in its time (Used for CnC RA95 GD)) Where there would be a specific map for each week of play (GB Pro Circuit and AM) so the competition would have to adapt to new maps each week. Any user could submit maps in to the council for them to vote on and pick. I think custom maps are more competitive than the originals partly due to resource management (more of it) and faster game play. If MLG does pick up SC2 I also hope they have 1v1 and 2v2 tournament. I think 2v2 brings out more strats into the mix, so, heres hoping for 1v1 and 2v2 ;)

6. If you managed to get through this and read it all a big congrats.


SC2 for MLG!

[Azrael.]

1. You cannot compare SC and SCII as they will be different games. Saying certain people will dominate a new game before it even comes out is naive. Trust me with this, I've been playing RTS games since I was 6, and I'm 21 now, starting with original CnC and followed the line up until CnC3. I can tell you that the best players in the game were not the best in the new games even though they were similiar.

Each game is different and brings different things to the table. I have played so many RTS games at the highest of level to have a good enough grasp on this. One thing is sure the three main countries for RTS gaming is Germany, Korea, and America and I'm sure these 3 countries would be featured if SC2 comes to MLG. One thing is sure though, if the competition is there, the competition will rise to meet its competitors.

2. I hope that MLG does pickup SC2, which it should. SC2 is going to be huge even in the states, I know many a great RTS player that is going to be playing SC2 from games like AoEIII to CnC RA, to CnC RA2 greats. If they picked up a MMO that is not competitive at all compared to other games on the circuit and games that should be there ala RTS (Which imho is the most competitive gaming culture there is) would be a shame and a let down.

3. MLG needs a RTS game to solidify its lineup and to bring more people into MLG. I hope they do not pickup Halo Wars as I think console RTS games are deluded of their true potential. Keep RTS on PC where its meant to be. You cannot micro and macro properly or fast enough on a console. I remember back in the old days of CnC RA95, competiting at the top levels the amount of clicks and micro needed (Q) was insane and back when I was like 8 doing this I cannot fathom how I managed it lmao. The speed of RTS just cannot be captured on a console.

4. Koreans dominate SC because they have a reason to continue playing for all this time. I'm sure if the incentives were here in America we would have as many good players as the koreans. RTS is still a huge market in america and there are some amazing players here. We are just segmented into too many RTS games like, AoK, AoEIII, CnC 3, EE, etc., if one amazing RTS came out that brought the genre together you would see america at the top competiting with the koreans no doubt and I think SC2 will be the game to do this if blizzard follows through. I for one will be playing this game competitively for quite a while and I am a long time RTS player.

5. If MLG does pick up SC2 there should be MOTW style rotation (Map of the week, which was amazing in its time (Used for CnC RA95 GD)) Where there would be a specific map for each week of play (GB Pro Circuit and AM) so the competition would have to adapt to new maps each week. Any user could submit maps in to the council for them to vote on and pick. I think custom maps are more competitive than the originals partly due to resource management (more of it) and faster game play. If MLG does pick up SC2 I also hope they have 1v1 and 2v2 tournament. I think 2v2 brings out more strats into the mix, so, heres hoping for 1v1 and 2v2 ;)

6. If you managed to get through this and read it all a big congrats.


SC2 for MLG!
that was a great read and i agree 100%

I know that sc and sc2 will be different, sequels are never the same.

SC2 FOR MLG!!!!!!

[StrwBryUzi]

There is not as many players playing in america that are playing in korea comptetively i mean. If enough people start taking the game serious there could be a lot of good players from america. Just wait and see =]

Thats what I meant lol.

[Azrael.]

Thats what I meant lol.
:D

[bosoxdanc]

I've decided to quote some "neg" rep some guy left me: "i kill u than sqaot over ur chest unbuckle my belt pull down my pants spraed open my butcheaks with my hands and squeaze out a steaming turd rite on ur chest bk stfu!"

[StrwBryUzi]

I've decided to quote some "neg" rep some guy left me: "i kill u than sqaot over ur chest unbuckle my belt pull down my pants spraed open my butcheaks with my hands and squeaze out a steaming turd rite on ur chest bk stfu!"

Thats awsome lol. WOW! ROFL!!

[whateverworks]

Im getting really scared that sc2 is gonna suck ass. Theyre bassically ruining the macro part of the game with auto mining and ****, micro right now is very easy because of the super advanced ai that auto flanks, and some of the units are filling the same role and some of them are just ****ing retarded cough medivac thor cough overlord creep thing cough. I hope that SC2 changes soon because theyre ruining the macro and micro part of the game.

[DSx Ozzy]

Im getting really scared that sc2 is gonna suck ass. Theyre bassically ruining the macro part of the game with auto mining and ****, micro right now is very easy because of the super advanced ai that auto flanks, and some of the units are filling the same role and some of them are just ****ing retarded cough medivac thor cough overlord creep thing cough. I hope that SC2 changes soon because theyre ruining the macro and micro part of the game.

How can you tell its getting ruined before even playing it? If it was another company, sure it would be safe to assume, but this is Blizzard were talking about. They know what they're doing. The won't even release the game until they are sure it is as near perfect as it possibly can be.

[Ryot]

How can you tell its getting ruined before even playing it? If it was another company, sure it would be safe to assume, but this is Blizzard were talking about. They know what they're doing. The won't even release the game until they are sure it is as near perfect as it possibly can be.

From good sources that played at the Blizzard WWI, both the mechanics and macro portion of the game are considerably weaker in the current build. But I agree it's not fair to make any more conclusions until Beta time at least.

[StrwBryUzi]

It better be great :mad:

[Azrael.]

lets just hope it takes more skill than WC3.

I know they are trying to make things easier for people, so yes it will take less skill. Which totally sucks ass. They are kind of doing the same thing bungie is doing :(

But until the beta comes, can't say to much.

[sD_Precision]

Easier is not bad, they are making the game more micro-intensive like Age series games and that takes MORE skill than the macro oriented SC. Not only that micro intensive games are much more enjoyable to watch and play. Not micro like in WC3 with only a few units, but, with hundreds of units and mutliple types spanning 3 and 4 fronts.

You will see in my opinion with the addition of MBS and Automining that the skill needed in SC2 will actually rise, micro is harder than macro imho coming from a guy who played RA95 for 6 years where micro was INTENSE (Only the top of the top know this as I'm talking about Q'ing your tanks which I could take 5 light tanks and kill 20 heavy tanks with them which almost everyone didn't know about the glory that was Q), and the skill gap using Q was VERY VERY wide. And in AoK and Age III DM where the amount of micro needed at top level was o.O much more intense and harder than macro imho.

Feel free to rebute, but, I think controlling your units to the maximum efficiency is more exciting and harder than clicking your drones and SCV to mine and selecting buildings to build units.

Ciao.

[StrwBryUzi]

I see what you mean and I pray that you are right. I enjoy watching SC matches alot and I just don't want to be dissappointed.

[Ryot]

Easier is not bad, they are making the game more micro-intensive like Age series games and that takes MORE skill than the macro oriented SC. Not only that micro intensive games are much more enjoyable to watch and play. Not micro like in WC3 with only a few units, but, with hundreds of units and mutliple types spanning 3 and 4 fronts.

You will see in my opinion with the addition of MBS and Automining that the skill needed in SC2 will actually rise, micro is harder than macro imho coming from a guy who played RA95 for 6 years where micro was INTENSE (Only the top of the top know this as I'm talking about Q'ing your tanks which I could take 5 light tanks and kill 20 heavy tanks with them which almost everyone didn't know about the glory that was Q), and the skill gap using Q was VERY VERY wide. And in AoK and Age III DM where the amount of micro needed at top level was o.O much more intense and harder than macro imho.

Feel free to rebute, but, I think controlling your units to the maximum efficiency is more exciting and harder than clicking your drones and SCV to mine and selecting buildings to build units.

Ciao.

Have to disagree on a lot of this.

Taking away macro =/= more micro. It might make the game more micro-focused, but not micro-intensive. This does not increase the skill needed for SC2 at all. I feel like I'm arguing Halo here, with the whole redundant argument that "lessening individual skill means more teamwork". It's like how people thought Halo 1 was all about how well you could shoot - people seem to have a similar misconception that Starcraft is all about hand speed without the strategy.

Lessening something doesn't increase something else. Why does everyone have this misconception? If anything the micro will be easier in SC2 as well because of how much more advanced the user interface is. Controlling larger armies is gonna be twice as easy since you can hotkey twice as many units per group. This takes a lot away from the delicate micromanagement of TvZ, for example. Also, from the last I heard on the current build, workers automatically surround units when engaging them. That's just disgusting. As an example of how that would affect gameplay, imagine early game PvZ where the P goes for an early zealot harass. This is always an intense micro situation in SC, but if the worker-surround thing remains then it's gone.

You need to understand that the reason Starcraft has some of the most intense micromanagement ever is because players are forced to cope with the sub-par user interface and relatively poor unit A.I/pathfinding. Understand that the original Starcraft with MBS, automining and bigger hotkey groups wouldn't be the same Starcraft, and the pro scene would be a lot less entertaining to watch. The beautiful thing about Starcraft is that no human is fast enough to manage everything perfectly. In fact, part of the essential decision making skills are how one divides their mechanics between micro and macro.

Anyways we're not even at a Beta yet so thankfully I don't have worry much. But it's pretty much guaranteed that we're going to see a bunch of UI and AI upgrades, thus making the game a lot less mechanically requiring. My hope is that Blizzard once again reaches the amazing race balance they did in BW in order to allow the almost limitless amount of strategies we see in Brood War.

[sD_Precision]

Have to disagree on a lot of this.

Taking away macro =/= more micro. It might make the game more micro-focused, but not micro-intensive. This does not increase the skill needed for SC2 at all. I feel like I'm arguing Halo here, with the whole redundant argument that "lessening individual skill means more teamwork". It's like how people thought Halo 1 was all about how well you could shoot - people seem to have a similar misconception that Starcraft is all about hand speed without the strategy.

Lessening something doesn't increase something else. Why does everyone have this misconception? If anything the micro will be easier in SC2 as well because of how much more advanced the user interface is. Controlling larger armies is gonna be twice as easy since you can hotkey twice as many units per group. This takes a lot away from the delicate micromanagement of TvZ, for example. Also, from the last I heard on the current build, workers automatically surround units when engaging them. That's just disgusting. As an example of how that would affect gameplay, imagine early game PvZ where the P goes for an early zealot harass. This is always an intense micro situation in SC, but if the worker-surround thing remains then it's gone.

You need to understand that the reason Starcraft has some of the most intense micromanagement ever is because players are forced to cope with the sub-par user interface and relatively poor unit A.I/pathfinding. Understand that the original Starcraft with MBS, automining and bigger hotkey groups wouldn't be the same Starcraft, and the pro scene would be a lot less entertaining to watch. The beautiful thing about Starcraft is that no human is fast enough to manage everything perfectly. In fact, part of the essential decision making skills are how one divides their mechanics between micro and macro.

Anyways we're not even at a Beta yet so thankfully I don't have worry much. But it's pretty much guaranteed that we're going to see a bunch of UI and AI upgrades, thus making the game a lot less mechanically requiring. My hope is that Blizzard once again reaches the amazing race balance they did in BW in order to allow the almost limitless amount of strategies we see in Brood War.

Not only moving the focal point of the game from macro to micro increase the amount of micro because you have more time to spend focusing on your units, the new units in SC2 force you to micro more to get the most out of your units.

Very simply put this is seen in Age series games where the focus is more on micro than macro and the skill gap is VERY VERY wide even between the experts / pros. Having to select and each building to build a unit and to macro every worker to have them gather resources is a skill that is 1. tedious and out of date and 2. Not enjoyable to watch

For example, Iamgrunt the best Age3 player by far has the most insane micro. It is far more enjoyable to watch him take less units and inferior units and micro them such that he comes out victorious against superior forces and numbers. That is fascinating to watch, moreso than SC macro. However that said, that is an opinion, however so is yours that says MBS and Automine will decrease the skill needed. In my opinion that is false because in other games that are more micro focused that do not even have the depth of the SC2 units and strategy the skill gaps are tremendous at all levels even comparing pros to pros. They are shifting the focus of the game to something more enjoyable which I would think would be good to everone.

If you are going to use analogies like I have please at least keep it in the same genre. You cannot compare teamwork to 1v1 in any possible fashion as they are not compatible.

To your point about lessening something doesn't increase anything else. One, you are wrong and two this is SC2 not SC1. With better unit pathing and new units and more depth in SC2 the micro possibilities are endless and allow players to have huge skill gaps even among pros. There is still macro, just not as intense as SC. Sure, you won't need 300APM anymore, and I would think that rapidly clicking mouse should not more often increase your chances of victory. Sure, something reasonable, but, not to the point where you need to have 300APM.

And two, your point about micro being easier due to UI. UI does not make micro easier in any shape or form. You will still need to use hotkeys to seperate your groups and use them efficiently. Baiting your enemy is my favorite thing to do in Age of Empires and it is the best Micro strat I think there is. And if you rebute that you now have selection of units up to 50 or unlimited that makes it easier I beg to differ. Sure for noobs perhaps who group all their units together, it makes it easier for YOU. This will even further distinguish the skill gaps.

Anyone familiar with large fielded armies games where the focus is on micro will surely agree with me.

SC does not have the most intense micromanagement ever. WC3 and Age of Empires both have substantially more micro than SC. I do however will agree with anyone who says SC has the most intense macromanagement ever.

I do agree that SC would not be the same with MBS, automining, etc. because guess what, SC2 and SC1 are two totally different games with different engines and different units, and different values, and different pathing, etc. upon etc. You have to come at this with unbias eyes and see this is a new game requiring new skillsets. This does not make the game easier, it just makes it different.

Now there are a few features that I think should be removed. Attack-Move upon unit building is a NO NO. And there are a few other features which I think is detrimental. Upgraded UI and a 2009 game is good (MBS / Auto-mining). Also, I hope that the game doesn't need to be played on fastest and the normal ranked matches is kept to Normal speed. I don't like to artificially accelerate gameplay, as it should be perfect at the current normal speed *lets hope*.

Oh one other thing, about controlling larger armies with less hotkeys making micro easy. Let me assure you that if you do that you will lose, and lose big. Smaller controlled groups with greater manueverability and fast reactions is far superior to a large micro force. Anyone who play Age games will show and tell you this ;)

Ciao.

[m1x Fr]

SC2 System specs and new screenshots !

http://www.mymym.com/en/news/14374.html

For Starcraft II, we wanted to maximize compatibility with less capable systems to ensure hassle?free game play for as broad a player base as possible. Yet we also wanted to utilize the full potential of any available hardware to ensure the game’s looks were competitive. This meant supporting a wide range of hardware, from ATI Radeon 9800/NVIDIA GeForce FX’s to the ATI Radeon HD 4800s and NVIDIA GeForce G200s

http://lamadunet.free.fr/1337/1183330984026.jpg

[Ryot]

Good post, thanks for replying. But I still have to disagree with some things.

Not only moving the focal point of the game from macro to micro increase the amount of micro because you have more time to spend focusing on your units, the new units in SC2 force you to micro more to get the most out of your units.

As I said in my above post, changing the focus does not increase the micro. Look at Starcraft right now. Would putting MBS and making macro easier increase the micro? No, it would be the same micro just with more time on your hands, as you said. Starcraft players don't need more time on their hands. The professionals micro almost flawlessly while macroing, which is what most Starcraft players find so amazing about watching the pro scene. Also, because everything in Starcraft can't be managed perfectly, there's the critical choice on choosing whether or not to focus on micro or macro. A lot of pro MBS people don't seem to acknowledge this very important game-defining element.

Very simply put this is seen in Age series games where the focus is more on micro than macro and the skill gap is VERY VERY wide even between the experts / pros. Having to select and each building to build a unit and to macro every worker to have them gather resources is a skill that is 1. tedious and out of date and 2. Not enjoyable to watch

Spectators don't watch first-person views of professionals on Korean TV, they get the observer view. And since Starcraft pros push themselves to micro amazingly while macroing, there's really no issue. As a player I can understand if you think the multi-tasking is too much. Personally I think gamers should learn to push themselves and learn to play harder games, but I understand that's just not the case.

The best argument for MBS is that it will draw in more people to Starcraft 2 and e-sports in general, because it's much more accessible. In that regard, I'm for it. But in terms of gameplay I don't care for it.

For example, Iamgrunt the best Age3 player by far has the most insane micro. It is far more enjoyable to watch him take less units and inferior units and micro them such that he comes out victorious against superior forces and numbers. That is fascinating to watch, moreso than SC macro. However that said, that is an opinion, however so is yours that says MBS and Automine will decrease the skill needed. In my opinion that is false because in other games that are more micro focused that do not even have the depth of the SC2 units and strategy the skill gaps are tremendous at all levels even comparing pros to pros. They are shifting the focus of the game to something more enjoyable which I would think would be good to everone.

We've been over this. The game will be more micro focused, but there won't be any more micro whether or not MBS is in. And taking out a large portion of the macromanagement skills while keeping everything else the same doesn't increase the skill the game needs. I really don't understand your point here.

If you are going to use analogies like I have please at least keep it in the same genre. You cannot compare teamwork to 1v1 in any possible fashion as they are not compatible.

I was just comparing the arguments because gamers across all genres seem to have similar misconceptions.

To your point about lessening something doesn't increase anything else. One, you are wrong and two this is SC2 not SC1. With better unit pathing and new units and more depth in SC2 the micro possibilities are endless and allow players to have huge skill gaps even among pros. There is still macro, just not as intense as SC. Sure, you won't need 300APM anymore, and I would think that rapidly clicking mouse should not more often increase your chances of victory. Sure, something reasonable, but, not to the point where you need to have 300APM.

"One, you are wrong" well then please tell me why. I don't know why the concept of "decreasing macro does not increase micro" is so tough to grasp. The units are still the same that you micro with. It doesn't matter if you have more time to micro with them. You can and will do the same stuff. And with the level of Starcraft being played currently at the top, they don't need more time to stare at their units. Maybe you do, and maybe I do. But the difference is that I don't care for features being built to make things easier for me.

Better pathing and new units does not necessarily make the possibilities endless. For all we know, the possibilities are less - and looking at little examples (such as the worker AI surround) that's the way it seems. What is unreasonable about 300 apm? They're pros, you're not, I'm not, and we're not going to be them. One can play Starcraft really efficiently with around 120 apm (which is really low). In fact I know a guy on iccup that is B- rank with 120 apm (admittedly, he's Protoss ;)).

And two, your point about micro being easier due to UI. UI does not make micro easier in any shape or form. You will still need to use hotkeys to seperate your groups and use them efficiently. Baiting your enemy is my favorite thing to do in Age of Empires and it is the best Micro strat I think there is. And if you rebute that you now have selection of units up to 50 or unlimited that makes it easier I beg to differ. Sure for noobs perhaps who group all their units together, it makes it easier for YOU. This will even further distinguish the skill gaps.

The user interface does make micro and other unit controlling activities easier, and example is giving players larger hotkey groups. I'm not against the larger hotkey groups in particular, but I know it will make things easier.

"Sure for noobs perhaps who group all their units together, it makes it easier for YOU. This will even further distinguish the skill gaps."

So you seem to acknowledge that this change will make the game easier. Exactly, that was my point. And does the capitalized "YOU" imply that I'm a noob of some sort? I may not be semi-pro or anything, but I don't think a noob would be the one arguing that harder, more skill-requiring gameplay would be better.

Anyone familiar with large fielded armies games where the focus is on micro will surely agree with me.

We've already went over the fact that only having to use 1 control group to manage a larger amount of units is easier than having to use multiple control groups. Alright here's your concrete proof that larger control groups will make things easier, even for the pros. Instead of organizing a marine and medic army 12 infantry at a time, they can now group about 24 in one key. So when a pro is moving around 48 marines, he'll only use two hotkeys instead of 4. What's harder, 1a2a or 1a2a3a4a?

But like I said I'm not against the larger control groups, I just acknowledge that it makes the game easier in a way.

SC does not have the most intense micromanagement ever. WC3 and Age of Empires both have substantially more micro than SC. I do however will agree with anyone who says SC has the most intense macromanagement ever.

I don't play much AoE, but I know that WC3 does not have more intense micro than SC. It may seem that way because that's all you do in WC3, but it's not true. The fact of the matter is that SC units and WC3 units behave very similarly for micro: target fire, spell casting, flanking, remove damaged units back, etc. The difference is that Starcraft does it on a much larger scale. Also, in WC3 you do not have to do anything as intense as dodge lurker spines with marines, dance around with mutalisks, etc. Let's not forget that fact that battles in Starcraft are much shorter, ironically putting more importance on micro. There's just less room for error.

I do agree that SC would not be the same with MBS, automining, etc. because guess what, SC2 and SC1 are two totally different games with different engines and different units, and different values, and different pathing, etc. upon etc. You have to come at this with unbias eyes and see this is a new game requiring new skillsets. This does not make the game easier, it just makes it different.

"Two totally different games" Sweet, back to redundant, cliché gamer sayings when comparing two games not only of the same genre, but of the same damn series. Sorry if I come off as a little rude, but they're not two totally different games. Starcraft and Halo, there's two totally different games. Heck, even Starcraft and Warcraft 3 I could see as two different games, though sharing the same genre they do have a ton of similarities and require the same skills (though in vastly different amounts).

"...not...easier, it just makes it different" Another one, cool. Now does anyone else see why I compared this argument to the argument with the Halo series? To really understand what you are arguing, you have to have played Starcraft at a higher level than public games. You have to understand the game and appreciate the complexity of combining the mechanics and the strategy. This is why Halo 2/3 players are in denial over how good their game is, without playing the first Halo. Similarly, it's why people make bad arguments about Halo 1 being bad because of the pistol. Yeah I went off-topic, but when it comes to game sequels and talking about the "new stuff" developers are adding, the arguments become strikingly similar.

(my reply continued on next post)

[Ryot]

Now there are a few features that I think should be removed. Attack-Move upon unit building is a NO NO. And there are a few other features which I think is detrimental. Upgraded UI and a 2009 game is good (MBS / Auto-mining). Also, I hope that the game doesn't need to be played on fastest and the normal ranked matches is kept to Normal speed. I don't like to artificially accelerate gameplay, as it should be perfect at the current normal speed *lets hope*.

OK fair enough, you want normal speed. But why should the norm not be fastest (as it inevitably will be)? There's nothing wrong to me with having a game be casual and competitive at the same time. You can have your normal speed, we can have our fastest. At the same time, I would ultimately like an option to have MBS and auto-mning on or off (as decided in game settings). Having these options available would make both of us quite happy as we could play the game as we please.

I don't criticize the way you play or want to play the game, let's just make that clear. But when it comes to discussing the game at the highest levels of play and talking about what qualifies as taking skill, do some research. Watch the pro scene. Understand how it works, why it works, and then you can be informed on how new features will change it.

Oh one other thing, about controlling larger armies with less hotkeys making micro easy. Let me assure you that if you do that you will lose, and lose big. Smaller controlled groups with greater manueverability and fast reactions is far superior to a large micro force. Anyone who play Age games will show and tell you this ;)

Ciao.

Starcraft players use hotkeys to move their army around in a big bunch - thus using more is harder. When it comes to fighting and actually microing, the mouse is used (as well as command hotkeys for spells, etc). And if the mouse is used, then really this point is nothing. See it's general Starcraft knowledge like this does not let you have an informed opinion on game mechanics and other skill-related areas.

I hope I didn't come off as too harsh on anything, and hopefully you can understand some of my points better. Cheers.

[StrwBryUzi]

Both of you have great posts and are opionions, which is true, atleast I think lol! Games not out yet so what you guys are saying are well...............opionions. But being the fanboy I am the game better meet my expactations or I will cry.