Halo 3 and Weak Weapons

[Cadillac]

Recently I hosted a fairly large CE LAN at my apartment with around 20 close friends (some good and most bad) and 8 TVs. This LAN obviously led to some CE vrs H3 talks which brought mostly familiar talks and ended with the CE does everything better conclusion. However, there is something recently that I had only thought a little on that really caught my attention and that I'd like to discuss more with people who are atleast decent at the game.

While playing CE I couldnt help but think, "wow (insert gun here) is so strong." I immediately thought the pistol was overpowered, and then I thought the shotgun was insanely strong, only a few seconds later to realize the dominance of rockets on chilly.

It had been a while (a few months) since I played, so as I got refamiliar with the game I was thinking how strong every weapon I used felt and thought, "this weapon is soo overpowered." Then I began to realize that in the scope of the game even though the shotgun is a very strong weapon it really isnt overpowered at all.

Halo 3 weapons in comparison all feel weak... Every weapon feels like it does no damage to the enemy. Im just going to do a little run down to show the point im trying to make.

-Pistol> BR
-Rockets> Rockets
-Plasma Rifle> PR/any dual
-Plasma Pistol> PP/any dual
-Shotgun> Mauler/Shotgun/Sword/Hammer/etc.
-Grenades> Grenades

The only weapon that is without a doubt in favor of H3 is the needler which is a horrible weapon anyway.

It seems as though on the spectrum of power the weapons have been shifted way to the bottom.

H:CE spectrum: average weapon power
|----------------------------------|------|

H3 spectrum: average weapon power
|-----|-----------------------------------|

Im just trying to say that why does every weapon in H3 have to feel like im holding a toy and every weapon in CE feel like im holding something destructive? How has this affected the speed of gameplay? In turn the competitive aspects? Why would Bungie even move in this direction from even a mainstream point of view? To clarify, I mean nobody wants to hold a pocket knife in GOW when they could be holding a chainsaw from a mainstream POV right?

So whats everyones thought on this...

[Allurex]

I know what you mean, and I have noticed it as well.

As for if that means anything necessarily, who knows?

[Cadillac]

I know what you mean, and I have noticed it as well.

As for if that means anything necessarily, who knows?

Well at this LAN (and everywhere else you go) a lot of people preached for a weapon like the pistol in H3 but in the context of H3 the pistol would be sooo overpowered while in CE it is simply the mid range weapon.

I realize we are talking about Bungie, but im also looking for a possible explanation as to why they would do this. As I have said we cant even really blame this on mainstream appeal because even that doesnt make sense.

So why have they done something that isnt good for mainstream play or competitive play? Or am I just totally off and slow speed doesnt affect competition in FPS at all?

[I_Malevolent_I]

3 Shots of a Pistol to the head that shoot faster with about the same reticule compared to 4 shots with a Battle rifle?

Weaker? Nah. lol.

Yea, theres no doubt that Halo 3's weapons definately make fights...well fights.

I kinda like being able to tell where im getting shot from and shoot at least once before i die :\

Kind of wish they would make forge weapon lists include a Pistol with Halo CE qualities, and a Sword with Halo 2 qualities.

Rockets, idk, I think Most people can aim them well enough to make them useful. But they need a higher splash damage area that half shields players.

Currently the rocket is either dead/no shields, but there are shots that I think some people are close enough to the shot that, while not needing to be completely no shielded, about half of their shields should at least be gone. :\

[FoxKeyes]

Halo 1 is balanced through a series of major imbalances.


Which turned out awesome.

[CmRoddy]

Good post. I agree as well, and the one thing I can think of that it did to Halo 3 was lower the competitive merit of the game, but that's about it really. If you compare the weapons in Halo 3 to Halo:CE, than yea, Halo 3 seems really weak, but if your just comparing Halo 3 weapons with other H3 weapons, than it balances out in my opinion. But either way, the speed of the game has been drastically reduced in an attempt to allow more casual and weaker players enjoy the game and actually see what's going on.

[Cadillac]

3 Shots of a Pistol to the head that shoot faster with about the same reticule compared to 4 shots with a Battle rifle?

Weaker? Nah. lol.

Yea, theres no doubt that Halo 3's weapons definately make fights...well fights.

I kinda like being able to tell where im getting shot from and shoot at least once before i die :\

Kind of wish they would make forge weapon lists include a Pistol with Halo CE qualities, and a Sword with Halo 2 qualities.

Rockets, idk, I think Most people can aim them well enough to make them useful. But they need a higher splash damage area that half shields players.

Currently the rocket is either dead/no shields, but there are shots that I think some people are close enough to the shot that, while not needing to be completely no shielded, about half of their shields should at least be gone. :\

Im not saying the weapons are completely useless, just that in comparison to CE they feel downright crappy. An H3 rocket in H:CE might not even be considered a power weapon...

Also if you look back at CE rockets it was completely possible and expected to take out vehicles with this weapon. Sometimes you could cross map a hog on BG... they were insanely powerful.

[Cadillac]

Good post. I agree as well, and the one thing I can think of that it did to Halo 3 was lower the competitive merit of the game, but that's about it really. If you compare the weapons in Halo 3 to Halo:CE, than yea, Halo 3 seems really weak, but if your just comparing Halo 3 weapons with other H3 weapons, than it balances out in my opinion. But either way, the speed of the game has been drastically reduced in an attempt to allow more casual and weaker players enjoy the game and actually see what's going on.

You make a good point...

But even though players may be better because of the slower speed does that make it more enjoyable to them? I realize its fun to win, but a game is truely great when you lose and still had fun. I think the high speed, high damage weapons, etc. would appeal more to the mainstream than the simple win/lose. I mean you can win and lose at any game, but winning doesnt mean enjoyable.

[FoxKeyes]

3 Shots of a Pistol to the head that shoot faster with about the same reticule compared to 4 shots with a Battle rifle?

Weaker? Nah. lol.

Yea, theres no doubt that Halo 3's weapons definately make fights...well fights.

\

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is just blatant ignorance.

The Halo 1 pistol fights took 5x as much skill, and your chances of survival if someone shot you first were 10x higher.

People miss tons more shots with the pistol than they do with the battle rifle. Right now, if someone gets the first 1 or 2 shots on you with a battle rifle, you're at a much larger disadvantage than when they would get a pistol shot or two on you in H1.

Nobody 3 shots every time, or even close to it. You had a much more fair chance of winning a pistol fight if they got the first shot than if you get shot first with a BR.

[Cadillac]

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is just blatant ignorance.

The Halo 1 pistol fights took 5x as much skill, and your chances of survival if someone shot you first were 10x higher.

People miss tons more shots with the pistol than they do with the battle rifle. Right now, if someone gets the first 1 or 2 shots on you with a battle rifle, you're at a much larger disadvantage than when they would get a pistol shot or two on you in H1.

Nobody 3 shots every time, or even close to it. You had a much more fair chance of winning a pistol fight if they got the first shot than if you get shot first with a BR.


lol so true...

[chaosTheory_s3]

I kinda like being able to tell where im getting shot from and shoot at least once before i die :\

^

I could literally write 4 pages on this subject, but that thought pretty much covers why halo is the way it is. Bungie knows this is how the majority of people think. Some bungie employee used the term "pistol sniping whores." :roll: Everything is halo 1 is stronger, yes. You make a mistake or a bad decision and you die. Getting shot at is not an inconvenience that you can simply back away from.

I can already tell this thread is going to be full of people who think they know everything about h1 saying why the pistol is unbalanced, the nades or rockets are too strong or whatever. I see it coming... sigh. It's going to irritate me endlessly.

Weapon strength is directly proportionate to the pace of the game.

[Cursed Lemon]

I've said it a million times before, H1 was good because people couldn't run away from death.

[GoaLaSSo]

i liked ce except for the nades. i played h2 first and then i started playing ce with some friends because i heard it was much better. i loved everything, but never understood the nades. a nade would blow up around the corner down the hall and i would die with the majority of my health.

[Master Dictator]

I like punching and throwing nades at the same time idk why I just did.
the CE flamethrower is still more powerful the the H3 one sadly...but Halo 3s mauler destroys the H:CE's mauler as if it wasnt even there...

[BigGann]

Yes halo ce weapons were more powerful, all of them. They all were very powerful and lead to fast pacecd gameplay. In H3 they made a fatal mistake by making some weapons more powerful and some weaker. Instead of being able to use any weapon to kill someone you have to use specific weapons to even the field.

They maded the same mistake with H2. Instead of making a powerful starting weapon to even the field for everyone, they started you with weak weapon and you had to upgrad as you went along. This was somewhat countered by br starts, but not to the extent it needed to be.

In H1, there were "power weapons," but not near as much as in the next two games. When someone had rockets you still had a fighting chance with a pistol. When someone had a sniper you could counter that with a plasma rifle.

I am pretty much just blabbering on now, so I will just go ahead and end with H1>FPS.

[Supportfish]

The pistol was the ultimate key to victory of this game. It made the game balanced in my opinion.

Think about this. Bungie and MLG have to think long and hard about placing one shotgun on a map, regardless of dynamic/static spawns. In Halo:CE balance simply pushed forward by the starting weapon itself allowed for two shotguns to be placed five feet from each other on static spawn on Damnation, camo to be right next to sniper which is above Rocket Launcher. That one weapon was the key to victory in that game. It happened to be a universally loved weapon at that. Instead of starting us from the beginning of the game with weapons that do nothing, which took more thought for weapon placement, starting us out with our tool of destruction was the most genious thing that could have been sparked.

It has happened more than once in H1 where I have played on Prisoner and lost a pistol battle, spawned close to the person and took them out. Because of this, it forced the player to move and be weary of where your opponent spawns in a 1v1 situation.

Before getting to off-topic I'd like to agree with Cadillac. Thankyou for the good read.

[cooldude12w]

You know what else was good about halo ce nades? They didnt explode in half a ****ing second, so you cant be some nooby nade whore or any of that cal, and your actually able to walk around corners and are FORCED to shoot, not get shot throw a nade and get a kill.

[xEvaN]

This just in: H3 rockets are broken.

[SoOepiC]

Its not just the weapons on h3 are underpowered its just the whole feel of the game is off. in h2 or h1 when you shot the br/pistol it actually felt as if your where firing those weapons, but in h3 it feels like u press the trigger then half second later the br shoots. idk it just feels weird feels off, the whole game is just off it needs major fixing.

[KopasetiKDeuce]

My biggest concern in H3 is nades...I can't stand nading a guy (who doesn't see me) and getting a BR shot or MAYBE two on him as he rounds a corner, only to have the BR spread deny me a kill half the time. If I get a good peak at a guy while his back is turned...within a reasonable distance, there should be no reason why I don't kill him. Unfortunately a bad BR spread or weak nade doesn't allow me a kill. And Lord knows I don't chase...so in essence, I've reavealed my position and his shields are back, rendering my advantage.

To sum it up, I saw one guy post:

You could put Halo 3 grenade on you cereal in the morning...and you still wouldn't die!!!:)

[whateverworks]

I personally loved the pistol not because it was a 3sk but because it fired 1 bullet instead of 3. You either hit the guy or you missed him and you could actually hit a person long range because of it.

[jack the pown]

there are a lot of features of h1 that made the game the best fps possibly in history. it changed competitive gaming. Now there could be multiple reasons why the game has evolved(or devolved, if u wish), but i think it is that the lead designer of H1 left, and wasnt there for H2 and now H3 obviously. This has affected, in my opinion, everything from weapon damage, to map design, to basic gameplay(even as far as fall damage). He left his structure with H1, which bungie has used. However, Bungie has changed from a company that was unknown, for the most part, and was making a game for a specific audience(competitive gamers), to now being quite well known, having the best selling trilogy of all time, and the game is now made for many audiences. The casual gamer doesnt want to feel overwhelmed by the game, and bungie understands this. They don't want someone to pick up the game, go into matchmaking, and die in 3-4 shots every time around. They basically want them to feel like they have a chance.

In a way I can't even blame bungie for doing this. They are smart, as far as the dollars and sense. I do wish H3 was a better game, but I'd be happy with them doing nothing more than fixing the BR spread. Everyone is, by bungies deliberate doing, on the same level when they start the game either way. Not by skill, but by weapons and so forth. And that's just how they have to do it, it makes most sense for them. I would be really excited if bungie came and made a game specifically for competitive gamers again, but im not sure that will ever happen.



gt jckapono

[Nautic]

I personally loved the pistol not because it was a 3sk but because it fired 1 bullet instead of 3. You either hit the guy or you missed him and you could actually hit a person long range because of it.


I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Hit or miss. Hit or miss. No inconstancies. You have to think in CE on a whole different level.

[rageing_rover]

:banghead: lol pistol

[mhughet]

you all know you can just turn the damage modifier up and you got TSK pistol again right?

[FoxKeyes]

you all know you can just turn the damage modifier up and you got TSK pistol again right?


and it's still nowhere close to the same in any way.

[wHo-Face]

It's not just in H:CE that the weapons were powerful. The weapons were also seemed really powerful in H2. I remember that as a gamer who had never got into Halo, the intensity and pace of the guns/gameplay drew me in. H3 does not have that.

[CmRoddy]

Halo:CE > Halo 3 in every way, except for online functionality.

[gannyganny]

I've said it a million times before, H1 was good because people couldn't run away from death.
That eliminates strongsiding, which is awesome!

[1337h4x]

Halo 3 gameplay in general has been slowed done alot, not only due to weapon power.

The Halo 1 to Halo 2 transition introduced a four shot burst battle rifle in place of the pistol; a much weaker shotty, a weaker rocket, but a tad bit stronger sniper thanks to the auto aim etc.

Despite these changes, the button glitches and Halo 2 style weapon switching made the game flow so smoothly, so vibrantly, and in turn so much faster. "crap, I need to reload my weapon. ill use the AR while backpack reloading l0l, wait for me to reload before shooting me" turned into "bam, quad shot"

Halo 3 sustains Halo 2's BR, but the lack of button glitches makes everything seem like it takes a lifetime to complete. Hell, YYing to scope out of snipe takes forever now. That, and weak weapons make H3 an overall bellow par game, by Bungie's standards. ( they might not know it though )

[Cursed Lemon]

That eliminates strongsiding, which is awesome!

Actually I heard Strongside kind of sucks at H1.

[chaosTheory_s3]

Actually I heard Strongside kind of sucks at H1.
I didnt hear that.... (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2982348&#post2982348)

[Omg_Falco_Owns]

I would have to say that the weapons both work out nicely for the games they're made for. A BR wouldn't work in Halo 1, and a H:CE pistol wouldn't work in Halo 3.

[CluTcH]

Halo 1 would be on the circuit sooo fast if it could generate the capital

[RuMmm]

Guys we're are stuck with H3, time to move on I'm afraid.

[GunJin]

This makes sense, but I don't know why bungie would do this it doesn't make much sense.

[ZephyrSpy]

I agree completly with your post. Everything is a hole lot weaker in H3 and it definately slows the speed of the game down. The guns in CE actually feel like 'real' guns and the H3 guns really just feel like something you could buy at Toys 'R' Us.

I was a complet n00b when I played CE. Still, I found it fun and wanted to constantly play even though I would just die most of the time and rarely got a kill. I loved how all of the weapons were so powerful and that they balanced each other out well. I wish I had played more before H2 came out. BTW if anyone knows of any CE LANs in the central Jersey area please PM me, I really want to play the game some more.

[Happy Greek 77]

I agree on all points presented by the OP. This "weakening of weapons" first became relevant to me when I first started playing H2 expecting the Pistol but getting the BR. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back then didn't it take like 7 shots to kill someone with the BR and its range also wasn't as good?

So basically I've come to the conclusion that weaker weapons lead to weaker game play and less competitiveness. It seems like competitiveness and pace of game has fallen in correlation with the strength of weapons: H1: Strong weapons, fast paced, very competitive H2: Pretty strong weapons (after BR became a 4 shot weapon), relatively fast paced, competitive H3: Medium weapons (only because the BR is still a 4 shot although a slower one)., slow paced, pretty competitive.

I think the pace of the game is the single most determining factor in the competitiveness of the game. For example, H1 was a very competitive game because of that. Once new techniques such as the BxR and Double Shot were introduced into H2 the pace of the game drastically sped up making the game more competitive and reminiscent of H1. H3 is like a slower H2 with less auto aim and more technicalities which lead to a decrease in competitiveness.

What do you guys think?

[Maximusben1]

the weaker weapons from H1 to H2 could be explained by the upgraded SPARTAN armor. Lets say it took a certain number of bullets to kill someone with the weaker shield, well it will take more bullets to kill the same person with a stronger upgraded shield. And this seems to us like the weapons are weaker.

However, I can't explain the fact that some weapons are stronger and others weaker from H2 to H3, unless weapons had upgrades too.

[Master Dictator]

chief doesnt change armor in halo 3 though. Only in Halo 2...that why we cant use chiefs Campaign armor in MM cause its not like something we can use.

[Dragod]

Just last week I got to LAN Halo: CE for the first time. And honestly... I prefer Halo 3. Rockets were immensely overpowered. Huge splash damage + insane flight speed. Pistol is fun, but it seems like I should be holding a BR, not this tiny gun.

Jumping in H1 sucks and isn't as responsive. Generally, the game isn't as responsive as H2 or H3. Fall damage is crap, and it prevents you from moving for a second. Powerups spawn insanely fast..

We played a CTF on Sidewinder and spawning SUCKS. Seriously, people complain about H3's spawn system? Do you know how frustrating it is to walk all the way to the other base, get sniped/killed next to the base, only to spawn at your base every time? Even when they're in your base and kill you, you always spawn in front of the base.

Honestly, I'm glad we're playing H3. H1 is fun for a short while, but the little things that have been improved since H1 make H1 just feel... inferior. I won't deny that I love the game, but I couldn't imagine playing competitively in a game with so many small problems. The pistol may be love, but the rest of the multiplayer can get annoying fast.

[TheMusicman65]

I've Have been saying this every since H3 came out and all everyone ever did was call me a complainer. This is all so so true and yes, it definitely effects the gameplay from a competitive stand point. But thats just it. I don't know why we are discussing the reasoning for bungies desicion to do this. See, its quite obvious.
They did it with H2 and now more with H3, and thats to make it more accessable to the mainstream market, (or as we hardcore gamers like to call it - noobifying).

Since halo got huge, bungie has always been about finding ways to make the game "more fun, cool, sweet", or whatever else you want to call it. They don't design the game with the competative aspect in mind, but instead make their desicions based on "thats would be fun, cool explosion, that looks sweet". One word sums this whole idea up......"VEHICLES" No other examples were deemed necessary. Its just a shame that when designing the game they don't keep people like us in mind. They don't say things like, "that texture would be bad for nades, that spawn doesn't work well, that vehicle is to overpowerd, that map designed is unbalanced, etc.", which in my mind are the fundamentals of making a game with solid gameplay.

Microsoft please step in and take control of halo like you did with Halo CE.

[chaosTheory_s3]

Just last week I got to LAN Halo: CE for the first time.
You could have stopped just there if you were going to waste the whole post complaining about Sidewinder CTF.

[xHuStLa]

Maybe the weapons aren't weaker... Master Chief is just stronger.

[captainki11z]

i dont care really, as long as everything is balanced and fair, as mlg has adequately provided us with that. so im happy with it, H3 is a great game. u guys really need to get some lives (...j/k) and think of other ways to spend ur time other than debating how stupid an amazing game is.

[Kurtiz]

wow funny you post this, last night i had a small h1 lan with my flatmates and holy **** the pistol dominates. This is the exact reason i hated h3 so much in the beginning and still hate it somewhat now, it just so ****ing slow, even with all the game-pausing equipment taken out it still slow as hell.

Maybe we should just seriously try out 150% dmg, or even 200% honestly lol

[_FangedWolf3_]

halo ce and halo3 is a diff game that means they will not be the same that means u cant compare and say all that i mean like if halo3 was the first game then halo ce would suck does anyone think this way at all

[ll Dark ll]

Wtf. Halo 3 Shotgun > H1 CE Shotgun in terms of strength.

[arcticwarfare]

halo ce and halo3 is a diff game that means they will not be the same that means u cant compare and say all that i mean like if halo3 was the first game then halo ce would suck does anyone think this way at all

I will never understand the excuse that Halo:CE and Halo 3 cannot be compared because they are different games. Any comparison requires a minimum of two subjects with different properties. Anyone who says otherwise is stating a contradiction. The validity of the comparison is another matter.

If Halo 3 was the first game, I would astounded by how much better the series had progressed. Maybe not in terms of graphics but definitely in gameplay. In a multiplayer game, graphics should really be considered a minor factor. You simply don't have much time to enjoy them.

Wtf. Halo 3 Shotgun > H1 CE Shotgun in terms of strength.

The Halo 1 shotgun was more effective at longer ranges and could shoot faster.

[GdaTerry]

So many things were better in Halo 1.

1. The grenades took more skill to place and were able to be bounced more desirably.

2. Alot of people who never played or understood halo 1 think the pistol was unbalanced. As people have already stated in this topic, they have no idea how rare a 3sk was compared to a 4sk.

3. The maps were just more fun. I mean losing control of the map in Halo 1 feels alot more fun than it does in Halo 3. The maps also seemed to have more character to them. Even the worst maps had a certain feel and atmosphere that made it unque. Yet, Halo 3 maps feel so freaking bland.

4. Everytime a bullet made contact with a persons body, they were hit.

5. The old health system was better since it prevented camping to a certain degree. People could not run away from fights without some sort of scar and thus camping was much harder to do in Halo 1.

6. Teleporters did not preserve momentum and had a nice transition screen. Teleporters were also not ugly looking and were actually a static part to most maps. They were able to be controlled by a team and teleblocking, and there was also telefragging.
Having your teleporter blocking on bloodgulch introduced new styles of play and out thinking, and required alot of team-work and coordination when you were on the receiving side.

7. There weren't any stupid fusion coils. I can't tell you the amount of times that I check for them, then someone comes out behind me and starts shooting their assault rifle. Then things decide the respawn at that moment and then BYE BYE ME. Even though it isn't exactly random, it feels like it adds a random element to the game.

8. Fall damage prevented people from recklessly jumping from places and punished those who did.

9. Vehicles were actually usuable in competitive play. They were much smoother to handle and the physics allowed for some pretty awesome tricks. In Halo 1, there were people who were terrible at on-foot combat but were excellent ghosters and Hoggers and were great assets to their team. Thus, filling the gap since everyone couldn't be awesome pistollers or snipers.
I'm going to use Shazaam's final as an example (look it up. It should be on own-age or youtube). There was some pretty clever ghosting. But heck, some of the basic turns and stuff are messed up in halo 3 now. Also, boosting made ghosts slower by default and more clumsier than they were in Halo 1. What a failure.

10. Scenery usually always had some sort of use and meaning to it. Many can admit that Halo 3 has ALOT of useless geometry.

11. Textures weren't the best, but they certainly were more consistent.

12. It was like being inside the master cheif's head. Sure Halo 3 has a fancy new HUD that mimicks what it would be like to be in the helmet....but it doesn't feel the same. If you got hit in Halo 1, you would notice it more. You would be able to tell exactly where you got hit from and you would be able to tell when you're shieldless really easily. All of this without screwing with your vision, or making you feel panicky for no reason.

13. Powerups were far more balanced. Camo wasn't INVISIBLE and Overshield was actually worth picking up!

14. Masterchief didn't jump like a bunny on drugs. If you've played Narrows on Halo 3 you'd see people jumping around like asses and suprisingly, it works pretty well. In halo 1, their asses would be dead.

15. Strafing was fast, and many people had their own little style of strafe. In Halo 3 everyone more or less seems to strafe the same way from what I've seen. Maybe a little variation here and there, but the relatively slow run speeds and the sliding make unique strafes really difficult. I remember aliasing alot on Halo 1, and people could tell it was me from just looking at my strafe. Wouldn't happen on Halo 3.

16. Pistolling had TECHNIQUES. Everyone's pistol was different. Is everyone's battle rifles different? No. If you've seen one good battle rifle, you've seen them all.

17. Alot of the things that passed for "CLUTCH" in halo 3 were pretty much commonplace in halo 1.

18. No melee lunge. For some reason, people say this makes melee's useless. But don't listen to them, they were probably playing another game. Probably Halo 3 where Melee battles are so BAD.

19. The ability to nade weapons to you. I loved this so much because it added a new and flexible way to play. The sniper on HeH was never something that you HAD to run to get, you could nade it to you from various angles and this required some game knowledge. In Halo 2 and 3, the weapons act like they have weights attached to them.

20. Most situations in Halo 1 had many possible outcomes and one could become a master at manipulating his opponent. I can't really explain this one too much, but basically, it was alot easier to get tricked into doing GAME-COSTING mistakes. Which made Halo 1 more of a chess-game.

21. Shotgun didn't always win. I mean, if you turn a corner and meet a person with the shotgun in Halo 3, you might as well start preparing for the death screen. In Halo 1, you still had a pretty great fighting chance most of the time.

But of course, Bungie never knew all this was good. If they did, they wouldn't have changed it. They based all their facts on stupid little games on LAN, when they had freaking Halo PC, where the game was abused to no end, for them to learn what people liked. Seriously, Halo PC was basically Halo 1 xbox with a mouse and keyboard and 16 player multiplayer. The exact environment you need to test out certain gameplay mechanics.
But hey, why even use a game they have on their main site! Lets claim that the tunnels in sidewinder were useless based on games we played on LAN! They didn't even freaking know how people played sidewinder, nor how the tunnels made the game competitive. What idiots I say. This is why I'm reluctant to see them port anything from Halo 1 again. They obviously made Halo 1 by accident and have no clue what was going for it.

[Renny11]

This just in: H3 rockets are broken.

Because most of the time you have to reload them twice?

[That-DAM-n00b]

This weapon weakening has been a progression think about it from HCE to h3. Why I don't know I think they took something that worked and tried to fix it.

[XxMaulxX]

I think it has to do with the classic feel of the game. When you play Halo CE is feels like your in a war zone do to things being less clean looking. Kinda giving off a Gears feeling.

But, that still doesn't explain how the plasma weapons shoot slower.

[-Icon]

I think it has to do with the classic feel of the game. When you play Halo CE is feels like your in a war zone do to things being less clean looking. Kinda giving off a Gears feeling.

But, that still doesn't explain how the plasma weapons shoot slower.
...What are you talking about...H1 feels like gears, WTH?

[viprium]

I agree on all points presented by the OP. This "weakening of weapons" first became relevant to me when I first started playing H2 expecting the Pistol but getting the BR. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back then didn't it take like 7 shots to kill someone with the BR and its range also wasn't as good?

So basically I've come to the conclusion that weaker weapons lead to weaker game play and less competitiveness. It seems like competitiveness and pace of game has fallen in correlation with the strength of weapons: H1: Strong weapons, fast paced, very competitive H2: Pretty strong weapons (after BR became a 4 shot weapon), relatively fast paced, competitive H3: Medium weapons (only because the BR is still a 4 shot although a slower one)., slow paced, pretty competitive.

I think the pace of the game is the single most determining factor in the competitiveness of the game. For example, H1 was a very competitive game because of that. Once new techniques such as the BxR and Double Shot were introduced into H2 the pace of the game drastically sped up making the game more competitive and reminiscent of H1. H3 is like a slower H2 with less auto aim and more technicalities which lead to a decrease in competitiveness.

What do you guys think?

Lol, Less auto aim decreases the competitiaveness of a game? +rep

[XxMaulxX]

...What are you talking about...H1 feels like gears, WTH?

The destroyed look of the graphics. Was just trying to explain how the grungy look made it seem more epic and real life.

[Tok0ya]

So many things were better in Halo 1.

1. The grenades took more skill to place and were able to be bounced more desirably.

2. Alot of people who never played or understood halo 1 think the pistol was unbalanced. As people have already stated in this topic, they have no idea how rare a 3sk was compared to a 4sk.

3. The maps were just more fun. I mean losing control of the map in Halo 1 feels alot more fun than it does in Halo 3. The maps also seemed to have more character to them. Even the worst maps had a certain feel and atmosphere that made it unque. Yet, Halo 3 maps feel so freaking bland.

4. Everytime a bullet made contact with a persons body, they were hit.

5. The old health system was better since it prevented camping to a certain degree. People could not run away from fights without some sort of scar and thus camping was much harder to do in Halo 1.

6. Teleporters did not preserve momentum and had a nice transition screen. Teleporters were also not ugly looking and were actually a static part to most maps. They were able to be controlled by a team and teleblocking, and there was also telefragging.
Having your teleporter blocking on bloodgulch introduced new styles of play and out thinking, and required alot of team-work and coordination when you were on the receiving side.

7. There weren't any stupid fusion coils. I can't tell you the amount of times that I check for them, then someone comes out behind me and starts shooting their assault rifle. Then things decide the respawn at that moment and then BYE BYE ME. Even though it isn't exactly random, it feels like it adds a random element to the game.

8. Fall damage prevented people from recklessly jumping from places and punished those who did.

9. Vehicles were actually usuable in competitive play. They were much smoother to handle and the physics allowed for some pretty awesome tricks. In Halo 1, there were people who were terrible at on-foot combat but were excellent ghosters and Hoggers and were great assets to their team. Thus, filling the gap since everyone couldn't be awesome pistollers or snipers.
I'm going to use Shazaam's final as an example (look it up. It should be on own-age or youtube). There was some pretty clever ghosting. But heck, some of the basic turns and stuff are messed up in halo 3 now. Also, boosting made ghosts slower by default and more clumsier than they were in Halo 1. What a failure.

10. Scenery usually always had some sort of use and meaning to it. Many can admit that Halo 3 has ALOT of useless geometry.

11. Textures weren't the best, but they certainly were more consistent.

12. It was like being inside the master cheif's head. Sure Halo 3 has a fancy new HUD that mimicks what it would be like to be in the helmet....but it doesn't feel the same. If you got hit in Halo 1, you would notice it more. You would be able to tell exactly where you got hit from and you would be able to tell when you're shieldless really easily. All of this without screwing with your vision, or making you feel panicky for no reason.

13. Powerups were far more balanced. Camo wasn't INVISIBLE and Overshield was actually worth picking up!

14. Masterchief didn't jump like a bunny on drugs. If you've played Narrows on Halo 3 you'd see people jumping around like asses and suprisingly, it works pretty well. In halo 1, their asses would be dead.

15. Strafing was fast, and many people had their own little style of strafe. In Halo 3 everyone more or less seems to strafe the same way from what I've seen. Maybe a little variation here and there, but the relatively slow run speeds and the sliding make unique strafes really difficult. I remember aliasing alot on Halo 1, and people could tell it was me from just looking at my strafe. Wouldn't happen on Halo 3.

16. Pistolling had TECHNIQUES. Everyone's pistol was different. Is everyone's battle rifles different? No. If you've seen one good battle rifle, you've seen them all.

17. Alot of the things that passed for "CLUTCH" in halo 3 were pretty much commonplace in halo 1.

18. No melee lunge. For some reason, people say this makes melee's useless. But don't listen to them, they were probably playing another game. Probably Halo 3 where Melee battles are so BAD.

19. The ability to nade weapons to you. I loved this so much because it added a new and flexible way to play. The sniper on HeH was never something that you HAD to run to get, you could nade it to you from various angles and this required some game knowledge. In Halo 2 and 3, the weapons act like they have weights attached to them.

20. Most situations in Halo 1 had many possible outcomes and one could become a master at manipulating his opponent. I can't really explain this one too much, but basically, it was alot easier to get tricked into doing GAME-COSTING mistakes. Which made Halo 1 more of a chess-game.

21. Shotgun didn't always win. I mean, if you turn a corner and meet a person with the shotgun in Halo 3, you might as well start preparing for the death screen. In Halo 1, you still had a pretty great fighting chance most of the time.

But of course, Bungie never knew all this was good. If they did, they wouldn't have changed it. They based all their facts on stupid little games on LAN, when they had freaking Halo PC, where the game was abused to no end, for them to learn what people liked. Seriously, Halo PC was basically Halo 1 xbox with a mouse and keyboard and 16 player multiplayer. The exact environment you need to test out certain gameplay mechanics.
But hey, why even use a game they have on their main site! Lets claim that the tunnels in sidewinder were useless based on games we played on LAN! They didn't even freaking know how people played sidewinder, nor how the tunnels made the game competitive. What idiots I say. This is why I'm reluctant to see them port anything from Halo 1 again. They obviously made Halo 1 by accident and have no clue what was going for it.


...You've prettymuch summed up every comparison of these two games that I come accross on this forum.
Halo:CE is better in a gazillion ways, Bungie is comprized of idiots, and Halo 3 was an abortion. The theme of 80% of these forums is how superior H:CE is to H3, I'm just suprised noone seems to realise they are making the same comparisons over and over...If you've played both games the differences are very apparent, I don't think anyone needs it spelled out for them repeatedly.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for pointing this out, or for having a different opinion then the MLG(forums collective concious, but ffs people, ever hear the expression, "beating a dead horse"?

On subject:
If we are using the Assault Rifle in 500 years, there better have been some sort of nuclear fallout that pushed our technology back, because if not we must be doomed to retardation.

[SoOepiC]

It's not just in H:CE that the weapons were powerful. The weapons were also seemed really powerful in H2. I remember that as a gamer who had never got into Halo, the intensity and pace of the guns/gameplay drew me in. H3 does not have that.

100% exactly what i was just going to post <------ h3 to me feels like a childrens game, its slow, its easy, and its just straight noob. i Mean the melee systems says it all...... bungie wanted a game where anyone from 5 years old to 105 years old could go out pick it up and be decently good at it. the skill cap in this game is extremely low, it was pretty low in h2 but stuff like the double shot helped it out abit, in h1 it was huge i mean look how bad zyos destroyed the 1v1's for ever? in h1 u no who the best where and those ppl couldnt be touched by anyone ever....... h3 i guarantee u will see fb,carbon,str8 all take dives in there placings at some point mark my words, Quote it even its going to happen.

[-Zultraranger-]

I believe even though the weapons are powered differently, Halo CE definitely was a harder game to play. The grenades were harder to throw, sniping was a bit harder, etc. With this difference, I think the weapons in Halo 3 suit the game pretty well (other than the needler). It takes that perfect balance to make the game great and I think both of those games did a pretty good job in doing so.

[Master Dictator]

what people dont understand is that CE was never played on live. It was a great LAN game. I love i, but if it was on live we would expierence some of the same problems.

[Cadillac]

Well I went to bed and then this happened...

Just a few things I wanted to address:

First Dragod- Spawning in CE is controlled heavily by your team-mates positioning. If you are upset with spawns in CE its because either you or your team-mates do not understand them. Im assuming with this being your first LAN of the game that the depth of the spawn system is still oblvious to you and it appears as though you keep spawning right in the line of fire.

As for the strength of the rockets. Its funny you mention rockets because everyone else in this thread has mentioned the pistol and even others talking about the shotgun. I find it funny that we cant even decide what is an isnt overpowered in CE. The reason for this is because in the context of the game the rockets arent overpowered at all.

You say that CE had small problems, but as far as I can see the only small problem is the 180 glitch. Other than that I find H3 to have numerous problems that I can certainly go through but im sure you already know.


Second Master Chief being stronger- First off you can simply fire a rocket in H:CE and tell its devastating power whereas in H3 it might as well be useless outside of a short distance. Just go in the game, fire both a CE rocket and then an H3 rocket and tell me which one you think is more powerful? The guns arent just stronger, the feel stronger, they feel destructive. Also, who cares about the armor and the affects on realism? Its like Bungie is worried about realism in the most retarded places. I mean we have a huge supersoldier fighting an alien race but we got the BR spread realistic! Really, why worry about realism or whats fitting when 99% of the universe isnt realistic at all? Im just saying they want to make the entire thing sci-fi and then worry about whether or not the smallest details are realistic...its stupid.


Third Zultranger- I get what your saying and agree with the point that H3 weapons are balanced on their own scale. However, when this (weak) scale allows for people to jump over my rockets and grenades with ease then its a problem. Taken to the extreme we could make this scale so weak that it took a shotgun 10 shots to kill up close, a rocket all 4 reloads to kill, and a BR may take your entire clip to kill. While this may all be balanced it would also make the game completely crap. Of course that example is extreme, but it really gets at what im trying to explain. Which is that this weak weapon balance is a really bad thing and that we can't just fix the rockets by making them the way they were in CE because then they would be overpowered by themselves without increasing weapon power with all the other weapons.


Last Halo CE & GoW- No....Just No.

[INSANExWAR]

The rocks are def weak. One time on Epitaph MM i was standing in the bubble shield and the guy with the rockets just walks in and shoots me and he doesn´t die. No joke.

[-Ender-]

The thing about having stronger weapons is that it takes less teamwork. I am sure the H1 pistol took more individual skill to actually aim and hit with than the BR, but I doubt anyone will be able to argue that two players using pistols need more teamwork than two players with BRs. Teamshooting is something I've always thought was the thing that seperated it from other FPSes. When you look at other games like Counterstrike and Call of Duty, of course they also take teamwork, but they don't really have teamshooting where you and a teammate fire at the same opponent.

Sure, many times I wish I had a H1 pistol so I could just destroy anyone on spawn, but then the game would be a lot more focused on shooting and less on teamwork. Maybe that's what some of you want, but to me, I feel just as happy destroying an entire opposing team with my teammates by my side. If there BR was stronger, you wouldn't need that kind of communication. You could just take out the entire team by yourself and carry your team because you can shoot better. Again, let me stress the importance of how I wish there was a perfect balance between teamshooting and individual skill; I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

So perhaps if you loved H1 and have felt like H2 and H3 have let you down, perhaps it's because you were used to being able to do more by yourself and not having to rely on teammates.

[-NaStY-]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the weapons in H:CE didn't just take a shorter time to kill, but also took more skill to use.




What this did was shorten potential kill times, but lengthen practical ones. This added fairness in the sense that you could technically kill a Camo Rocket before the rocket reached you with your starting weapon. But it made fights fights because nobody 3 shotted all the time, nobody perfectly tracked with a Plasma rifle, nobody hit headshots with the sniper, and nobody could pull the Plasma pistol infinitely fast while circle strafing and meleeing. It gave everyone a fighting chance because a good user killed faster on average, but anybody could technically beat that average speed by a lot in a given, specific situation.



What I'm getting at is that it's a good thing Halo 3 has toy-like weapons, because the guns don't take enough skill to merit fast kill times. Halo 3 loses shooting skill but instead emphasizes positional awareness - you make sure you're near cover at all times, because there's not a ton of chance that you're going to turn around and beat the other person's kill time. Instead you appreciate the fact that their easy to use gun doesn't kill in 1 second and move to cover.

Now, obviously the Halo 1 system is a little more conventionally rewarding. That's why I support anything that decreases kill times and increases skill simultaneously. Doing one without the other is unacceptable because it either perpetuates "whoever shoots first wins" or slows the game down, respectively.

The only reason we're not moving at 150% speed at 150% damage is that there are two weapons in the game that CANNOT be removed that are H:CE powered, and not H3 powered. What iare they? The melee and the sniper. When these two elements are in the game, increased damage makes them unreasonable. Without them, everything can be scaled up and then made more difficult via faster move speed.

[Bumzors]

We played a CTF on Sidewinder and spawning SUCKS. Seriously, people complain about H3's spawn system? Do you know how frustrating it is to walk all the way to the other base, get sniped/killed next to the base, only to spawn at your base every time? Even when they're in your base and kill you, you always spawn in front of the base.

I've got to disagree with you there. It is possible to spawn inside the base, and with the quick respawn time on the sniper, run the portals and gain map control back very, very quickly. Even in your example, if you get sniped next to their base (presumably from a sniper at the top of their base or their cliff), a player with a decent shot could run through port and take out the other sniper, or run through middle if the other sniper is camping your port. You've got plenty of options to out smart and out shoot your opponent.

Basically, it allows for a very even playing field, with the result of the match more dependent on teamwork and individual skill rather than some lucky spawn halfway through a game, which is more or less how a competitive game needs to be set up.

ON TOPIC: I have to agree that almost all of the weapons have been drastically weakened, thus slowing the game down. These little complexities like BR spread, grenade physics, invisible health, and so on all make the game a good deal slower. Simplicity is often the answer.

[xHuStLa]

If bungie was going for the future realism thing.... a rocket should blow everything up in ATLEAST 20ft it IS a fkn rocket after all! I'm sure people will develop a way to make a burst weapon fire straight almost every time. I have been playing halo 2 lately and I'm starting to like it much more then halo 3. I LAN'd HCE once and I loved it, sure I couldn't 3sk anyone but I had a lot of fun and learned some tricks. I think bungie should make a game for the competitive community, mix all the best things about the halo trilogy and make everyone on these forums bow down.

[Dragod]

I wasn't saying that Halo: CE was bad, I'm just saying that after playing Halo 2 and 3, when I play CE, I get annoyed at the little things. I loved playing CE on LAN for the first time, I was just using the rockets and Sidewinder CTF because it's what I remember most. First game we played was on Battle Creek... It was fun, but I didn't like the latters and Overshield spawned way too quickly and was in a horrible position. Second game was on Prisoner, and I remember trying to jump from platform to platform, but end up falling because the jumping system has changed... In Halo 2 and 3, you can almost be off the platform and still jump, so that's what I was doing to gain a few valuable inches, but I ended up falling instead. It was rather annoying and took a while to get used to. And I just remember being on Sidewinder, picking up rockets, and shooting it, and being surprised at how fast it moved. HeH Pistols was really fun.

I love Halo: CE, but I've become accustomed to those slight changes in the games. I do agree with many of your points, though. I do wish Bungie didn't make such intricate textures. Why couldn't the stairs on Blackout only seem modeled 100%, like Foundry stairs? I hate throwing a grenade at the stairs from Blue 1 to under glass... I expect it to fly up, but it just comes flying back at me.

My perfect game would be graphics of Halo 3, features of Halo 3 (Bumper Jumper, File Sharing, Theater, Forge), Simple but detailed textures, Halo 2 BR, Halo 1 weapon powers, no gravity hammer, flame thrower, or missile pod, Halo 2 map styles. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with Halo 3, but this would be my perfect game.

[SpartanX9]

3 Shots of a Pistol to the head that shoot faster with about the same reticule compared to 4 shots with a Battle rifle?
:\

not criticizing but it doesnt take 3 shots to the head...it can be 2 anywhere and the last to the head

[Cursed Lemon]

I wasn't saying that Halo: CE was bad, I'm just saying that after playing Halo 2 and 3, when I play CE, I get annoyed at the little things. I loved playing CE on LAN for the first time, I was just using the rockets and Sidewinder CTF because it's what I remember most. First game we played was on Battle Creek... It was fun, but I didn't like the latters and Overshield spawned way too quickly and was in a horrible position. Second game was on Prisoner, and I remember trying to jump from platform to platform, but end up falling because the jumping system has changed... In Halo 2 and 3, you can almost be off the platform and still jump, so that's what I was doing to gain a few valuable inches, but I ended up falling instead. It was rather annoying and took a while to get used to. And I just remember being on Sidewinder, picking up rockets, and shooting it, and being surprised at how fast it moved. HeH Pistols was really fun.

I love Halo: CE, but I've become accustomed to those slight changes in the games. I do agree with many of your points, though. I do wish Bungie didn't make such intricate textures. Why couldn't the stairs on Blackout only seem modeled 100%, like Foundry stairs? I hate throwing a grenade at the stairs from Blue 1 to under glass... I expect it to fly up, but it just comes flying back at me.

My perfect game would be graphics of Halo 3, features of Halo 3 (Bumper Jumper, File Sharing, Theater, Forge), Simple but detailed textures, Halo 2 BR, Halo 1 weapon powers, no gravity hammer, flame thrower, or missile pod, Halo 2 map styles. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with Halo 3, but this would be my perfect game.

Maybe you ought to play a little XBC before you judge ANYTHING about H1.

[-Icon]

Now that I think of it, why does he throw all grenades at the same speed? Why can't adjust aim and what not? Realisticly speaking of course.

[KopasetiKDeuce]

Maybe you ought to play a little XBC before you judge ANYTHING about H1.


There's a true champ right there....some of my first experiences with the GREATNESS of Halo in general started while playing on good ol' XBC. Sure sometimes it lagged, and when it did...IT was HORRIBLE, but
my first memories and competitions came from the ol school.

Believe it or not, that is what I think helped promote competitive play and led to the success of H2. Just look at the release date of Halo CE. Dude that was ages ago! The online play on XBC kept a fan base and allowed for the some of the first online experiences with gaming using communicaiton/strat ect...

I could talk on this all day!!!

***drools!!!:lol:

[Uhh Negative]

So what you are saying is, it takes longer to kill someone in H3 than it did in H1. This is true. This is also the reason why Bungie gave us the damage modifier. I know it still wouldn't be the same but at least they gave us the option.

[x-413Josh-x]

Halo 3 weapons r better anyway. da pistol in Combat Evolved is way 2 strong.

[Llamaking]

The thing about having stronger weapons is that it takes less teamwork. I am sure the H1 pistol took more individual skill to actually aim and hit with than the BR, but I doubt anyone will be able to argue that two players using pistols need more teamwork than two players with BRs. Teamshooting is something I've always thought was the thing that seperated it from other FPSes. When you look at other games like Counterstrike and Call of Duty, of course they also take teamwork, but they don't really have teamshooting where you and a teammate fire at the same opponent.

Sure, many times I wish I had a H1 pistol so I could just destroy anyone on spawn, but then the game would be a lot more focused on shooting and less on teamwork. Maybe that's what some of you want, but to me, I feel just as happy destroying an entire opposing team with my teammates by my side. If there BR was stronger, you wouldn't need that kind of communication. You could just take out the entire team by yourself and carry your team because you can shoot better. Again, let me stress the importance of how I wish there was a perfect balance between teamshooting and individual skill; I just don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

So perhaps if you loved H1 and have felt like H2 and H3 have let you down, perhaps it's because you were used to being able to do more by yourself and not having to rely on teammates.

I disagree to an extent.

Halo: CE was still all about teamwork and if you teamshot it would be game over for the other team. When I play with my friends (we lan all the time) the team that usually wins is the team that works well together and teamshoots the best. Of course there are going to be those few games when me or one of my friends goes rediculous and grabs 35 kills, but thats a rarity and the majority of games are decided on how well you play with your team.

Now the whole point about killing an entire team is just wrong. I am a tier above my friends when it comes to Halo and the only times that I can kill the entire team is when I have OS/rockets, camo/snipe or something extremely powerful. The only other time I can think of is in dammy CTF when I can spawn trap them at blue base. The thing is killing an entire team on your own is a rare thing especially in Halo: CE because all the weapons are much more powerful and grenades are devastating even when you have an OS.

I will agree that teamshooting is emphasized a LOT more in halo 2/3, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't apparent in Halo: CE. What I want is a game that has an element of teamshooting, but I also have the potential to kill 2 or 3 players in a fight. Halo 2/3 doesn't do that but Halo: CE does.

[KopasetiKDeuce]

I What I want is a game that has an element of teamshooting, but I also have the potential to kill 2 or 3 players in a fight. Halo 2/3 doesn't do that but Halo: CE does.


ZOMG I have to say kid....think before you post. No multi-killing in H2??? Hmmmm, do the words "button glitches" come to mind??

[Llamaking]

ZOMG I have to say kid....think before you post. No multi-killing in H2??? Hmmmm, do the words "button glitches" come to mind??

Don't you find it a little dumb that the way to get multikills is with button glitches?

I mean, shouldn't you be able to have the potential to kill multiple people without doing the glitches?

I guess when I see a button glitch, it should enhance the gameplay, not be required to kill multiple enemies. In halo 2 when you see multiple people you are forced to attempt a double-shot or quad-shot, while in halo 1, you didn't need button glitches to compete. A good strafe and great shooting will net you a victory in halo 1, but in halo 3 you're almost guaranteed to lose, or in halo 2, you're guaranteed to lose unless you use the button glitches. To me, a double-shot/quad-shot in halo 2 in that scenario doesn't enhance the gameplay.

[r0yzilla]

too true my friend too true...

[warrior_spartan]

a simple solution to make all weapons stronger is to make weapon damage 150% or 125% then there would be near inevitable death in every battle... resulting in a fast game. (im not sure if melee damage increases with weapon damage though)

[InfiniteNew]

I kinda like being able to tell where im getting shot from and shoot at least once before i die :\


This indirectly answers the question you posed in this thread.

You don't die as fast. You have a chance to react whether it be for the better of the game or the noobifying that took place over the past 2 sequels.... I'll go with the later myself.

[chaosTheory_s3]

If the answer was simply turning up the damage past 110, MLG would have done it already. The speed of the pistol was balanced by the delay in pulling it out (if you tried to bodyshot snipe then pistol headshot you would almost ALWAYS die to someone pistoling back at you), the DIFFICULTY of headshotting (not hard in h3 at ALL) the lack of magnetism & autoaim, and the power of the other weapons. The melees and snipe would be far too strong with increased damage in h3. Very predictable spawns also made it work. The sole reason Hang em can suck at top levels of play in h1 is because of the prevalence of unpredictable spawns (they are intentionally given by your partner). When you can kill someone in 1 second cross-map, coming from unexpected angles becomes much more powerful. The predictable spawns in h1 were just another thing that made the pistol work. WIth the weird spawns in h3, a super strong starting weapon where headshotting is easy would not be beneficial at all.

There is NO solution to the slowness of the BR kill other that "work with what you have." And considering that FB won the opener, Id say they made gametypes that are balanced and the best players win. MLG h3 is probably as good as its going to get (with these current maps, and unless they want to make a large departure from the current speed settings, which I dont see happening.) Deeper understanding and manipulation of the spawns, some better maps and maybe 125 speed (<- debateable) and I could see MLG h3 getting better. As it is tho- despite it's failings, it sure seems to be working. I personally dont really enjoy it, but that's just me.

[HalasterBlack]

Did anyone see the WCG match (1v1) when Zyos took out a Overshield/Rockets player with the plasma pistol?

Does anyone here know how weapons could make headshots in Halo1? Sniper, Pistol are obvious, but you probably didn't know that both the Plasma Pistol and Plasma Rifle had increased headshot damage.

Im tired of people making this argument based off the Pistol when there are so many other weapons to compare.

H1 Plasma Pistol

H1 Plasma Pistols charged shot homed better and its travel speedcould be increased by running forward (important if you want them not to dodge) . H1 Plasma Pistols could stun and slow both players movement and aim. H1 Plasma Pistol could do additional headshot damage (though probably only relevant PPvsPP)


H1 Plasma Rifle.

Stunning ability, 3 headshots to kill (shields down)


H1 Shotgun.
Better range than H3 shotgun, faster rate of fire than H3 shotgun.

Kernel Shot- the middle shot of the shotgun burst doing additional damage and going much farther as if the shotgun had fired both a slug round and shot round in the burst. Kernel shots can reach as far as across Boarding Action. (Play 50% health no shields shotguns to have plenty of fun with the Kernel Shot)


H1 Sniper

Faster rate of fire, no shot recoil, headshot hitboxes make much more sense,

2X ZOOM ABILITY

H1 Rockets
Much faster travel rate, better area effect. H1 rockets can hit players mid to long range.

H1 Grenades
Much better placement ability at mid to long range. Better physics. Players on both ground and air are thrown when hit with nades. The "at rest" explode ability allows more bounces than h3 nades. Weapons can be thrown by nades. H1 NADES DO NOT CAUSE OTHER NADES IN AIR TO EXPLODE WHILE EXPLODING.


Bamm h3 loses

[OMG_ItZ_Ph0nY]

wow i never realized that
your right

[John_Shooter]

I've Have been saying this every since H3 came out and all everyone ever did was call me a complainer. This is all so so true and yes, it definitely effects the gameplay from a competitive stand point. But thats just it. I don't know why we are discussing the reasoning for bungies desicion to do this. See, its quite obvious.
They did it with H2 and now more with H3, and thats to make it more accessable to the mainstream market, (or as we hardcore gamers like to call it - noobifying).

Since halo got huge, bungie has always been about finding ways to make the game "more fun, cool, sweet", or whatever else you want to call it. They don't design the game with the competative aspect in mind, but instead make their desicions based on "thats would be fun, cool explosion, that looks sweet". One word sums this whole idea up......"VEHICLES" No other examples were deemed necessary. Its just a shame that when designing the game they don't keep people like us in mind. They don't say things like, "that texture would be bad for nades, that spawn doesn't work well, that vehicle is to overpowerd, that map designed is unbalanced, etc.", which in my mind are the fundamentals of making a game with solid gameplay.

Microsoft please step in and take control of halo like you did with Halo CE.

As much as the last statement of your post irked me, you're right. Halo:CE was without a doubt the best. Why? Halo 3 is too "analyzed." If you watched the ViDocs when they made it, it was all about collecting statistics and numbers instead of just going with what was fun. BR is no longer hitscan? I can live with it. Giving it the muzzle velocity of a Supersoaker is just downright annoying. Also, I miss that feature in CE where your respawn timer was variable depending on your performance.

[RELLIK PIR]

People are going to hate me for saying this but. For a marketing standpoint bungie made an almost perfect game. I think it could have been slightly better for everyone if they had taken a step closer to competitive gaming but look at the sales for H3.
Then because it wasn't that amazing guess what. Everyone bought other games. Making MS more money. H3 maybe the last game any of us ever buy blindly from Bungie studios but the other 98% + 10% will so they just don't really care.
They make our eliteist attidude eat mud compared to theirs. They made Billions. All we can do now is *****. Sorry but forums don't scare me either.

[Cadillac]

People are going to hate me for saying this but. For a marketing standpoint bungie made an almost perfect game. I think it could have been slightly better for everyone if they had taken a step closer to competitive gaming but look at the sales for H3.
Then because it wasn't that amazing guess what. Everyone bought other games. Making MS more money. H3 maybe the last game any of us ever buy blindly from Bungie studios but the other 98% + 10% will so they just don't really care.
They make our eliteist attidude eat mud compared to theirs. They made Billions. All we can do now is *****. Sorry but forums don't scare me either.

Your actually right to an extent... I barely bought any other games for my original xbox because I played so much Halo CE and H2. However I already own more 360 games and play a larger variety of games because frankly H3 isnt that good.

However I dont think that bungie purposefully made a bad game to do this. In the long run Halo pushes consoles, more consoles pushes more games, so on and so forth.

Im just saying I see where your going and in some wierd sense its kinda right, but overall the better a Halo game is the better off MS is.

[Mystery_BR_NC]

pl0x me i wish i had better aim for spray and pray weapons.