Why?

[ZoroSeerus]

Why are so many people posting about how they hate maps when they have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE wth a good map is. Many of these posters just like to jump on a bandwagon and then say a map sucks when they have NO IDEA of any elements of map design? WTF is this the b.net forums!? There is NO, I repeat NO reason to post about sh.t you don't know about. Go f.cking learn about it and THEN post about it. Why should map creators that DO know wtf they're doing get flamed and 'hated' on by kids who have no idea how much work is put into a map? Can you answer that question, NO! This community is turning on itself simply because it can.

Sorry for any spelling/grammer errors it's like 3.am and I'm very tired.

[theeckounltd]

This thread sucks. No screen shots, no description, etc. How do you expect me to download MLG Why v1?

[00silvy]

This thread sucks. No screen shots, no description, etc. How do you expect me to download MLG Why v1?

v2 is already out anyway....pretty good map IMO, should replace amp on the circuit

[MLG_Rico_Suave]

Why are so many people posting about how they hate maps when they have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE wth a good map is. Many of these posters just like to jump on a bandwagon and then say a map sucks when they have NO IDEA of any elements of map design? WTF is this the b.net forums!? There is NO, I repeat NO reason to post about sh.t you don't know about. Go f.cking learn about it and THEN post about it. Why should map creators that DO know wtf they're doing get flamed and 'hated' on by kids who have no idea how much work is put into a map? Can you answer that question, NO! This community is turning on itself simply because it can.

Sorry for any spelling/grammer errors it's like 3.am and I'm very tired.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1083640/whaambulance-ani.gif

[SaLoT]

first off its there opinion on if they like the map.

My way of doing things is this " If i don't post in your thread about your map you can assume i don't like it "

Honestly how do you know if they don't play on the map ? Maybe they did and just don't like it.

And acting like this makes you look like a B.Net kid. cursing is not the way to get your point out.

[-NaStY-]

Some people like to think they're experts on what maps work because they've played MLG's official maps. Most of them just assume that what they already have is good, and then they feel empowered in critiquing other maps because they (the maps) are different.

In some regards a random noob who doesn't have the first clue about map design and game flow is still useful though. Even if you don't know how to make a map, you should still be able to realize a map is fun or not fun. It's a demographic you have to please - making maps for forgers isn't very lucrative. So you don't have to respect them, but respect the purpose they serve. Even if this forum is based on bandwagons, mass enjoyment has to stem from somewhere.

[.Coldkill]

Usually people hate a map because they often do bad on it. If somebody constantly goes negative on a map they automatically make excuses like lag and bullet registration and other stupid stuff. On maps like Amplified or Onslaught if somebody does bad it automatically comes down to the matter of a fact of the map being a complete piece of trash or so many claim. If somebody gets spawn killed in CTF Onslaught (how shocking it would be) they automatically say the map is terrible and then you have to hear the long list of Bungie complaints.

I was playing with some kid earlier who was talking such trash about Salot and stuff so we all asked him to show us one of his maps and suprisingly he didn't have any. People usually just can't handle doing bad and they have to find something to blame it on. That's really what seperates the pros from the average players, pros can live with lag and getting owned by some complete random but the average player has to find some stupid excuse for everything.

This really falls along the lines of complaints that people have for when they do bad and I don't think that it helps that the people in the MLG community have opened forge once just to make a map of fusion coils. I love some of the maps people take but people always want to feel better than everybody else which is usually why they try and put others down. You're stupid if you complain about things like spawns and stuff, but you're even stupider if you get offended because somebody complains about random things like spawns to vent out their anger.

Wow I wrote way too much for something that's pretty much self explanatory, I have way too much free time on my hands right now.

[SaLoT]

LOL at some one talking trash about me!!!!!!!!!

Funny thing is when they get beat and talk trash i just remind them the just got beat by a map maker!!!!!:-D :-D

[Vehemence]

Amplified is a bunch of **** piled on top of each other making it look like a ****in maze. I mean what the **** is the point of the little corner wall huts intertwined?

At least Onslaught was thought out and actually looks normal unlike a pile of ****.

What map always gets vetoed 8 of 8 when you go into the MLG playlist? AMPLIFIED!

[Baron Saturday]

My understanding of Zoro's post is that he is upset by the amount of people who post in the forum leaving unqualified negative feedback on forged maps. These posts are usually in other forger's map threads and almost never in official feedback threads.

I use the word unqualified because the posts in question usually do not contain any constructive critiscism, just mindless bashing. (See previous post)

[-Ender-]

I understand what you mean, it's pretty frustrating when Forgers put a lot of work into a good map then some random person picks at one or several things that were either done correctly or have very little to do with how the map is played. However, I think most Forgers who do know what they are talking about just ignore those posts. If you can easily identify the ignorant posts and differ them from the constructive ones, then so can the Forger.

[ZoroSeerus]

Amplified is a bunch of **** piled on top of each other making it look like a ****in maze. I mean what the **** is the point of the little corner wall huts intertwined?

At least Onslaught was thought out and actually looks normal unlike a pile of ****.

What map always gets vetoed 8 of 8 when you go into the MLG playlist? AMPLIFIED!
For example, this one.
Amplified AND Onslaught have a LOT of work put into them and I know that you only bashed Amplified but let's see here. The 2 corner walls are geo'd and intertwined, you probably suck at this map and have played it 3 times, you couldn't make anything NEAR as good so just stfu. If you were posting constructive criticism I wouldn't be mad but you're just saying it sucks and you have NO idea what you are talking about.

[.Coldkill]

Amplified is a bunch of **** piled on top of each other making it look like a ****in maze. I mean what the **** is the point of the little corner wall huts intertwined?

At least Onslaught was thought out and actually looks normal unlike a pile of ****.

What map always gets vetoed 8 of 8 when you go into the MLG playlist? AMPLIFIED!
1. The little wall huts are good for cover and you got a perfect view on P2 in KOTH.
2. You would never be able to make a map as good as Amplified no matter how hard you tried.
3. If Bungie brought back Midship people would still veto it because they are all litlle matchmaking noobs.

[Vehemence]

For example, this one.
Amplified AND Onslaught have a LOT of work put into them and I know that you only bashed Amplified but let's see here. The 2 corner walls are geo'd and intertwined, you probably suck at this map and have played it 3 times, you couldn't make anything NEAR as good so just stfu. If you were posting constructive criticism I wouldn't be mad but you're just saying it sucks and you have NO idea what you are talking about.

See I understand that the two corner walls are geoglitched together. What I see is a pointless use of two corner walls that provide absolutely no cover at all. Show me a video of you going to one of those huts without dieing against someone who knows how to press R or L trigger. And I do not suck at this map at all. I find it ridiculously easy to play this map, but feel the spawns are extremely poor at times. Many times I have been on top of one of the bases walking towards one of the corners and a person spawn directly in front of me. That defines a terrible map which shouldn't be included at a competitive level because that is not competitive one bit.


1. The little wall huts are good for cover and you got a perfect view on P2 in KOTH.
2. You would never be able to make a map as good as Amplified no matter how hard you tried.
3. If Bungie brought back Midship people would still veto it because they are all litlle matchmaking noobs.

And for you....

1. I'm talking about the ones on the floor which are pointless because its extremely easy to finish a kill if someone goes behind one of those.
2. I'd rather spend my life doing something other than the 100+ hours that people spend into making a map. Honestly, step back and think about your life when you have spend 100+ hours making a map for a game.
3. People wouldn't veto Midship because its actually a good map unlike the pile of walls and boxes that created Amplified.

[.Coldkill]

People in matchmaking veto anything, half of them say "I feel like vetoing, don;t feel like this right now". Some people enjoy putting hours into a single map because it's sometimes fun. If you can make a map yourself that is better than Amplified then you can talk all the trash that you want dude, but don't talk trash if you can't back it up dude.

[MLG_Rico_Suave]

Amplified does not suck and it is not the worst map in MLG. The updated version had the spawns changed and I haven't had any problems with Amplified.

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/flame_suit.jpg

Bring on the neg rep *****es.

[ZoroSeerus]

Amplified does not suck and it is not the worst map in MLG. The updated version had the spawns changed and I haven't had any problems with Amplified.

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/flame_suit.jpg

Bring on the neg rep *****es.
FLAMESUIT ON!!!!!!!
Seriously though,
Amplified is an amazing map and that kid was just mad that he sucks at life.

[Jnoon]

OHH but all of them are perfectly qualified to give their opinion. especially when most maps are made for the community to play on. They are especially qualified to give their opinion on map design. However, they do not have a flamethrower license for a particular map or even a particular mapmaker. The way a community thrives is through cunstructive critisicm. The way a community dies is through mindless flame wars because of a unbiased vendetta against a certain idea, thing, or person.

[.Coldkill]

I agree everyone has the option to tell their opinion but they don't have to tell their opinion so much that it starts to get people annoyed.

[Vehemence]

I agree everyone has the option to tell their opinion but they don't have to tell their opinion so much that it starts to get people annoyed.

Well then you need to catch a breathe of fresh air and a couple rays if my first post made you annoyed.

Maybe go to the beach if you live near one... And oh yea, Zanzibar doesn't count.

[.Coldkill]

First off if I went to a beach it would be Last Resort, it's much nicer. Second what I'm saying is that you can say your opinions but don't go in the forums saying Amplified is garbage when you know that you yourself can't make a map near as good as it so don't go and complain about like crazy.

[Vehemence]

First off if I went to a beach it would be Last Resort, it's much nicer. Second what I'm saying is that you can say your opinions but don't go in the forums saying Amplified is garbage when you know that you yourself can't make a map near as good as it so don't go and complain about like crazy.

i couldn't do it because i don't know how to do all those glitches and don't want to take the time to learn. I just think that if the gameplay on a map sucks and parts of it take away from the competitive merit of a game then it should not be used by MLG.

[.Coldkill]

Well why do you think that stuff, I've met plenty of people who just say a map is bad because they feel like it. Some people say Amplified is bad and they don't even know why it they think it's bad.

[Vehemence]

Well why do you think that stuff, I've met plenty of people who just say a map is bad because they feel like it. Some people say Amplified is bad and they don't even know why it they think it's bad.

I think that Amplified is bad because of the spawn system. I don't care that there is a new version of the map which supposedly fixes the spawns. I doubt it. No matter what, every open map on Foundry will have spawn issues. If someone made an open map that was unbelievable on Foundry it will still suck because the spawn system ruins the entire map. There will always be a time where someone spawns in front of another player or behind them. If this were to occur and a team won 50-49 then it was a faulty spawn system that takes out the competitive merit of the map.

Thats why I think that both foundry maps, Onslaught and Amplified, do not necessarily work. I think that the limitation of CTF on Onslaught makes the map much better than the Team Slayer on Amplified because the Neutral spawn system for Foundry simply doesn't work.

I think that the best type of Team Slayer maps for Foundry are the new Asymmetrical maps that are starting to come out because I feel that if a team controls a certain area of a map the other team will not get spawns that are advantageous in instantaneously breaking a setup. I also believe that as long as the asymmetrical maps have great viewpoints they can be very successful for MLG. I just believe that a Team Slayer on an open Foundry map does not work because of the spawn system.

I believe that the removal of Amplified for an Asymmetrical map such as Mecro (An AMAZING map) would benefit the circuit tremendously.

[Mizell2099]

OK, I thought this thread was about not knowing about what makes a good map and leaving negative feedback on it... But it seems that the argument against negative feedback on this thread is that they cannot make such a thing in forge and that a lot of work was put into it...

It should be known that spending countless hours in forge making a map does not automatically make it good... It should also be know that geo'ing stuff and doing other cool forge things does not make a map good...

My personal opinion is only for smart people to read:
I lkie Osuhngalt and Lcdookwn as tehy are calen cut, but Apmfiield jsut gvies me a too cworedd flieeng...

[Fritzster]

Irony.

[ZoroSeerus]

Irony.
What?

[zakboo]

Irony.



That what I was thinking...................

[KeNn3dY]

I think that Amplified is bad because of the spawn system. I don't care that there is a new version of the map which supposedly fixes the spawns. I doubt it. No matter what, every open map on Foundry will have spawn issues. If someone made an open map that was unbelievable on Foundry it will still suck because the spawn system ruins the entire map. There will always be a time where someone spawns in front of another player or behind them. If this were to occur and a team won 50-49 then it was a faulty spawn system that takes out the competitive merit of the map.

Thats why I think that both foundry maps, Onslaught and Amplified, do not necessarily work. I think that the limitation of CTF on Onslaught makes the map much better than the Team Slayer on Amplified because the Neutral spawn system for Foundry simply doesn't work.

I think that the best type of Team Slayer maps for Foundry are the new Asymmetrical maps that are starting to come out because I feel that if a team controls a certain area of a map the other team will not get spawns that are advantageous in instantaneously breaking a setup. I also believe that as long as the asymmetrical maps have great viewpoints they can be very successful for MLG. I just believe that a Team Slayer on an open Foundry map does not work because of the spawn system.

I believe that the removal of Amplified for an Asymmetrical map such as Mecro (An AMAZING map) would benefit the circuit tremendously.

amen. I know absolutily nothing about making maps and all that but that has nothing to do with how the map plays when i go into a custom or mlg playlist. You act like just because youre making the map means you know if it will work in competitive play or not. Just cause someone spends countless hours making a map doesnt mean it is good. The spawns are still messed up on amplified wether you like it or not. I love onslaught flag cause its all about br battles. Amplified is all about running around a map and having the other team spawn behind or in front of you. I have spawned many times behind the other team during amplified and i know they prob are getting pissed saying amplified sucks cause guees what theres alot of unneeded walls and stuff all over the map and the spawns just dont work for mlg. Ok so dont go around saying "oh you just havent played it enough and you no nothing about making maps, how bout u make a better map noob" how does me making a map have anything to do with the way amplified plays. Exactly so stfu just cause u spend most of your time making maps doesnt mean you know if its a good or bad map depending on gameplay. Geeze

[Mizell2099]

That what I was thinking...................
You bastards better not be talking about me. lol

Sorry but I just don't like it as much as the other two. I still think it is a good map and all, but it is just not for me. And if you could read that last sentence without thinking about it, then good for you, you are at the very least, minimally respectable.

[Jackass_Jon]

I think that Amplified is bad because of the spawn system. I don't care that there is a new version of the map which supposedly fixes the spawns. I doubt it. No matter what, every open map on Foundry will have spawn issues. If someone made an open map that was unbelievable on Foundry it will still suck because the spawn system ruins the entire map. There will always be a time where someone spawns in front of another player or behind them. If this were to occur and a team won 50-49 then it was a faulty spawn system that takes out the competitive merit of the map.

Posted by Nasty one of the most intellegent people on the forums and no im not sucking up look at his posts every single one makes sense.

4 Simple facts

1. A bad spawn system is one that is not predictable.

2. A bad spawn point is one that perpetually places players in common view, allowing non-conscious spawn killing.

3. Different levels DO NOT use different spawn systems.

4. Open maps have more view paths.

The link to that thread is right here (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3836389)

The main thing i want to point out of that post is that every map uses the same spawn system. Meaning a map with bad spawns is due to their postion on the map not the system itself. That means that a Foundry map can have great spawns but like Nasty said that is difficult with the large open lines of sight. But it can be overcome. since you haven't tried the new version of Amp then you have no place to blame it for bad spawns because Fritz, Zak, and KC have gone over the bad spawns in question seen the problem and have replaced it and fixed it.

[Vehemence]

I was wondering if KC did serious testing on the new Asymmetrical maps such as Mecro? I would like to know how the spawns have worked on these maps.