A new take on an old favorite - MLG Isolation

[TheEpicCiabatta]

Due to a flood of posting about Isolation on the main H3 forum, including Ssshakedown's decision to attempt at creating an MLG-worthy version of Isolation (thread can be found here (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195652)), I have decided to make my own attempt at this map. Before I explain what I have done to the map, I want to provide some of what I think is some critical information about Iso.

In my opinion, and this is not just because of the recent talk about wanting Isolation back in the rotation, this is one of the best-playing maps in the game. This map requires lots of teamwork, and if a steady teamshot can be coordinated, the team will be well rewarded. Lines of sight are good, but not too good, for effective sniping. Because of Isolation's tunnel system and overall playability, I am strongly reminded of both The Pit and Beaver Creek. Because Isolation is a bit smaller than Pit, I believe it yields more fast-paced and exciting action then that of a map such as Pit, which I think is a quite slow-paced map due to its largeness.

I believe that the biggest problem for this map is the lack of open-mindedness of people to try it. Many people who played it in v3 reminisce about it with a fairly positive message, but a lot of people who didn't play v3 tend to shun the map, and I have been laughed at/booted from parties after suggestion we test the version of Isolation I cooked up. When I start a party up, many people leave when they see Isolation. I would really like to see this map make a comeback in v6, but I need testing to refine it, and the people I believe can help me with this is the MLG community. Now, without further ado, onto the map!

Gametypes:
The map is currently compatible with all 4 MLG gametypes, although I think Ball would be a horrible variant for this map, I went ahead and setup opening spawns just in case anyone was feeling like trying a ridiculous variant. TS looks interesting on this map, but CTF and KOTH look golden with the current setup. I copied the hills from v3 Isolation (with some minor tweaks to the starting hill), as I was hearing that it was a great hill map.

First hill spawns here:
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8495/hill1fl8.jpg

Second hill:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4323/hill2mq9.jpg

Third hill:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5134/hill3os5.jpg

I placed the flags for CTF in the back of the base, which gives the runner many options depending on where his teammates and the opposing team are.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6667/flagpositionqx8.jpg

Settings for the CTF gametypes are as follows:
- Standard MLG v5 settings
- 5 caps to win
- 3 second return time
- 15 second reset time

Spawns:
I did the best I could on placing spawns without having the ability test how they were. I believe I have them set up to the extent where they can predicted roughly, but without the ability for a full spawn trap. I wasn't sure whether people would appreciate safe spawns or possible spawn traps, so I picked somewhere in the gray area.
There are a total of 60 spawns on the map, with 30 on each side. Additionally, the spawns are divided in half along the middle of the base, giving each side of the base 15 spawns. Starting spawns are on top of the base, as shown:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5042/spawnsstartingeo9.jpg

Spawn group 1 - 7 spawns:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3406/spawns1wq5.jpg

Spawn group 2 - 4 spawns:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1829/spawns2zp9.jpg

Spawn group 3 - 6 spawns:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6778/spawns3my2.jpg

Spawn group 4 - 4 spawns:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/986/spawns4qv0.jpg

Spawn group 5 - 4 spawns:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/2876/spawns5ah4.jpg

Spawn group 6 - 4 spawns:
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2763/spawns6kv1.jpg

Single spawn - this spawn, located by the custom powerup, is meant to be an effective spawn point in KOTH when hill is at silver. The spawn gives good options to a team for attacking the hill and also great spawn protection from enemies looking for an easy spawn kill:
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/826/spawnssingleil2.jpg

Weapon Setup:
8 Battle Rifles - 10 second timer
4 Carbines - 1 minute 30 second timer
1 Plasma Pistol - 1 minute 30 second timer
1 Mauler, no extra clips - 2 minute timer
2 Sniper Rifles, 1 extra clip - 2 minute 30 second DROP SPAWN
1 Rocket Launcher, no extra clips - 3 minute DROP SPAWN
6 Frag Grenades (3 sets) - 30 second timer
6 Plasma Grenades (3 sets) - 30 second timer
1 Custom Powerup - 2 minute timer

I originally decided to go with a weapon layout similar to that of Ssshakedown's. However, after some testing and discussion, I realized that it would be better to go with a more traditional approach on power weapons. The weapons are set up in a way to make sure that no part of the map is particularly dominating. While some people would prefer no power weapons at silver, I decided to place the rockets there in order to counter a customs push. However, since there are only 2 shots per spawn, players must be very careful in their use of the rockets in order to maximize their effectiveness.

Rockets:
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/9017/rocketsv2cy9.jpg

Sniper:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9330/sniperv2jb5.jpg

Custom powerup:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4407/customsv2wp5.jpg

Mauler:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5840/maulerpd8.jpg

Plasma Pistol:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2200/plasmapistolv2zm3.jpg

Map Changes:
Of course, I made changes to the map itself. I considered adding teleporters like those in v3, but decided to hold out on those until I got a little bit of feedback. There are currently two changes of high interest made to the map.

I added indicators high above the bases, giving players an at-a-glance callout aid.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7259/indicatorsoy6.jpg

I added a grav lift in a weapon holder to each of the bases with the lifts on a run-time minimum. This adds a route out of the base by the hole in the roof. Credit goes to Ssshakedown for thinking this one up :)
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/268/baseliftwq7.jpg

Future changes:
I've already changed power weapons once, and it is likely that I will change them again. More spawn tweaks will be in store, of course. Spawn pics will be posted when I update to v1.5 after more testing. Things are looking up for this map, as a got positive reviews from those who played the map.

I want this map!
The map and corresponding CTF variant can be found in my Fileshare (http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=TheEpicCiabatta).
The map is currently on version 2.
The last changes made was the major modification of power weapons, tweaking of spawns, and slight changes to the CTF variant.
If interested in testing this map, please send a message or friend request to TheEpicCiabatta.

[Fritzster]

This looks good with thought put into new changes. I'd like to help test.

[G3N0C1D3_92]

yea a couple dayz ago i posted the thread " was ISO really that bad?" and im really happy that other people are interested in seeing the return of that map.

its cool to see peoples variants of the map to in order to make it more playable in MLG.

ill mos def download it and test some games on it.

[ssshakedown]

You added the grav lifts out of the bases?:p
My version can be found here (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195652)(several key differences). I just noticed that my snipers were on 1 minutes 30 second spawns rather than 2:30. Typical ssshakedown mistake, lol.

If it's cool with you, I'm going to post my version here as well, so maybe some people can test it rather than debating the issue of the teleporters or the snipers without even having played the map. . .

[TheEpicCiabatta]

You added the grav lifts out of the bases?:p
My version can be found here (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195652)(several key differences). I just noticed that my snipers were on 1 minutes 30 second spawns rather than 2:30. Typical ssshakedown mistake, lol.

If it's cool with you, I'm going to post my version here as well, so maybe some people can test it rather than debating the issue of the teleporters or the snipers without even having played the map. . .

Forgot to give you credit for the grav lifts, sorry. As I said, I would love to test alongside you.

Edit: I'm going to add a list of people who will help test. If you would like to be added, just say the word.

[theseventhstar]

I'd like to help test. Add: TheSeventhStar


A few things though, I think 2 snipers might be too much. I could be wrong, I've never played Isolation with MLG settings before.

And, I read that the hill was where the Custom Powerup spawns, is that right? I don't think it should be put there, mainly because of the guy in hill and the craziness that is usually inside the hills.

Just a suggestion, JD x JD has a Isolation map with Custom Powerup where the Ghost spawns, between the two Flood-pillar things. It seems like a good placement, while the Mauler is where you had the Custom Powerup, Rockets up top on the concrete platform, and Sniper where it originally spawns... I believe. While I've only had a small FFA with 2 friends on his map, the weapon placement seems like a sturdy one. I'll be happy to help you run some games though. :D

[.Reminisce.]

This looks pretty interesting. I'll give it a try.

[-ImplosioN-]

Now this is all just my thoughts and opinions, so don't take any of it too seriously. Here goes:

I think you should have the 2 snipers at each base instead of this... If a team wins the initial rush, they will have easy access to BOTH snipers, which would be ridiculous IMO. Also, I think the flag spawns should be moved a little more out into the open, like halfway between what you have now and the back wall. If you notice that on most flag maps, there is a final element of danger in trying to cap the flag, if you had the flag where it's at now, you would be covered easily. A little more out in the open should do it.

One more thing, is that IMO OS would be better at the bottom of ***hole instead of where it's at now. Those pillars next to the bottom of the hole would provide good cover when trying to pick it up, so it's not too easy to burn it.

Oh and if you want to have rockets on the map, default snipe spawn, or under snipe spawn (near where ghost spawns in MM, but next to the wall next to those pillar things) would be good spots to have them, if you haven't already thought about using rocks. Just make sure it's a good distance away from OS, and it should be fine. Top Silver is a possibility, but OS would definitely have to be moved if that was the case, moving OS under default snipe spawn would be the best place in this scenario.

This is all just IMO.

edit: spawns. I think it would be a good idea to experiment with having the spawns Pit style, where you rarely spawn in the middle of the map (needler spawns are the closest thing). On MLG Iso v3, the spawns could be bad cuz they spawned up by top silver a lot, I think with more spawns at the bases, things would be much better.

[-ImplosioN-]

........Just a suggestion, JD x JD has a Isolation map with Custom Powerup where the Ghost spawns, between the two Flood-pillar things. It seems like a good placement, while the Mauler is where you had the Custom Powerup, Rockets up top on the concrete platform, and Sniper where it originally spawns... I believe. While I've only had a small FFA with 2 friends on his map, the weapon placement seems like a sturdy one. I'll be happy to help you run some games though. :D

I 100% think there needs to be some power weapons at the bases, because of the size of the map and the difficulty of taking back map control. With a map this size, I am a huge advocate of having 2 snipes on the map, just not in the placement shown in the original post. If 1 snipe is to be used on the map, JD's placements would be perfect, except rockets would need to be bottom mid somehow, so that the team controlling top mid wouldn't have such an easy time acquiring them. So it would be very identical to MLG's placements, except with OS...

[x_JD]

this looks a lot like my iso im not saying you didnt make it but the hills look alot like my isolation check it out in forge:

http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?h3fileid=52480771

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I'm putting up v1.4 now. I took implode's advice and removed one sniper, added in rockets, and shuffled around power weaps a bit. To answer you questions about spawns, I have about 1/2 to 2/3 of the spawns in or near the base. I did notice a few erroneous spawns when I ran a test game (lagged out halfway through so I can't upload a gameplay video).

Btw x_JD, I used Iso v3's hills. If I copied yours, it was unintentional.

[ssshakedown]

I don't know about rockets. They kind of break the map, from what I hear and know. If you have rockets, you quite literally control the map. Isolation is set up so that unless someone is within rocket range, you can escape BR fire and live until someone comes within range of your rockets.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I don't know about rockets. They kind of break the map, from what I hear and know. If you have rockets, you quite literally control the map. Isolation is set up so that unless someone is within rocket range, you can escape BR fire and live until someone comes within range of your rockets.

I might reduce the power of rockets by giving them only 2 shots per spawn. This should help lessen the power of the rockets, while still having a weapon that can be deadly when used right. Since this map is much smaller than Narrows, Construct, and Pit (maps with rockets) no extra shots might be a decent way to go.

Edit: Also, having fewer shots on the rockets should force people to play and make decisions more carefully in order to keep the advantage of the power weapon.

[ssshakedown]

Yeah, maybe a reduced ammo count would help out there. I'm excited to see how yours works out with the rocks. Since the dual snipers on mine haven't been getting that great of feedback, I might end up creating an MLG Iso Conformist Edition with no teles, normal behind-the-base start spawns and flags, and rockets and only one sniper.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

Yeah, maybe a reduced ammo count would help out there. I'm excited to see how yours works out with the rocks. Since the dual snipers on mine haven't been getting that great of feedback, I might end up creating an MLG Iso Conformist Edition with no teles, normal behind-the-base start spawns and flags, and rockets and only one sniper.

A layout I'm thinking about using is replacing my brown sniper with the rocks, putting 2 snipers in, one inside each base, to eliminate the neutral sniper problem and give a Pit/Narrows-esque guaranteed sniper for each team. However, I'm afraid that this would reduce the use of the underground portion of the map since all power weapons are up top, and I don't think most people would go out of there way to drop bottom mid for a mauler or plasma pistol.

[-ImplosioN-]

Yeah, maybe a reduced ammo count would help out there. I'm excited to see how yours works out with the rocks. Since the dual snipers on mine haven't been getting that great of feedback, I might end up creating an MLG Iso Conformist Edition with no teles, normal behind-the-base start spawns and flags, and rockets and only one sniper.

Oh shut up lol. It was just my own personal opinion, you are free to test out w/e you want, but if YOU want to try it out, then go ahead and do it. How about this, when I come on this weekend, we can take turns testing your isolation, and my version of construct. Sound like a deal? I've been wanting to test ball on construct for quite a while, and I have a different middle hill location.

[ssshakedown]

Oh shut up lol. It was just my own personal opinion, you are free to test out w/e you want, but if YOU want to try it out, then go ahead and do it. How about this, when I come on this weekend, we can take turns testing your isolation, and my version of construct. Sound like a deal? I've been wanting to test ball on construct for quite a while, and I have a different middle hill location.
Haha. Yeah, deal. Go back and read the thread, I wanted your opinions. I'm already doubting my decisions on a few points (though I'm not done with you on a few others). Help me make this better, dammit.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I'm going to tweak the current version one more time, then try to get some hardcore testing done. Power weapon placement seems a little shaky at the moment, so I was thinking about the following changes:

- Custom powerup moved to between the pillars near where the Ghost is in MM.
- Rockets moved to silver
- One 8-shot sniper placed in each base

[-ImplosioN-]

I'm going to tweak the current version one more time, then try to get some hardcore testing done. Power weapon placement seems a little shaky at the moment, so I was thinking about the following changes:

- Custom powerup moved to between the pillars near where the Ghost is in MM.
- Rockets moved to silver
- One 8-shot sniper placed in each base

Epic. This sounds really good. What gametypes are you going to run on it? With 2 snipers on the map, the middle hill MIGHT have to be moved somewhere else, I dunno if it would or not, just seeing what you think.

Oh and I have an idea if you wanna mess around with it, it has to do with the starting spawns. Check the bottom of THIS (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4257867&postcount=10) post and see what you think.

[FL1Psyde]

would love to test out this map, this was my fav map back when it was in

[SnipedaWhoOp]

I went ahead to your File Share, Ciabatta, and downloaded the map and Capture the Flag variant. Just curious, are we still working out the kinks with the King of the Hill variant, or will v5 KOTH cut it for the time being? I'm also assuming regular v5 Team Slayer will function well on this map :-P

I've always been a fan of Isolation, right from Day 1. Most people haven't shared my lenient, charitable opinion of Isolation, though. But for the past few months as I find myself getting more and more into MLG, I've been looking at the map much differently now. I've been finding all sorts of little routes and tricks, spawn traps, strategies, set ups, map control, etc. and so forth, and I'd love to see this map get a functioning MLG overhaul. It is far too underrated I think. It has the potential to be absolutely maddening in ample hands.

Feel free to add my gamertag: Snipe da WhoOp to your friends list (no zeroes). I could probably run a 4v4 custom game for you as well to give you a wide range of opinions. I'm sure some gents wouldn't mind a small peek at MLG Isolation.

Cheers.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

After extensive tweaking on Forge and careful consideration of all comments and tips posted on this thread, I am confident that I have made this map the best it can be without extensive hardcore testing. Under optimal conditions I would hope to be running quite a bit of testing this weekend, but because of a Hurricane Ike headed straight for my town, I might have to postpone this for a later date. However, despite these setbacks, I will be releasing version two of my map, named "MLG Iso TST v2," in several hours.

V2 will include the following changes:
- Drop-spawning rocket launcher, containing only 2 shots, moved to silver
- Custom powerup moved to between the two flood pillars near where the Ghost spawns on standard Iso.
- Two 8-shot drop-spawning sniper rifles placed inside each base
- Plasma Pistol moved to the... hole
- Minor tweakage of spawns
- Minor movement to BR ammo pickups

Thread changes will include:
- Updated screenshots of weapon locations
- Screenshots of spawns, both starting spawns and respawn points
- Possible gameplay videos

In closing, I would just like to say how glad I am to be a part of making Isolation the best it can be for MLG.

[zztabasco]

iso=pit but better

[TheEpicCiabatta]

iso=pit but better

A wouldn't go that far, but Isolation can sure give Pit a run for its money. Iso has little wasted space, unlike Pit, and I get kind of tired of the ugly angles and flat lines that are Pit.

[Hibachi10]

Just curious, on King of the Hill, does each team spawn only on their side of the map, since the hills are all along the line of symmetry?

[TheEpicCiabatta]

Just curious, on King of the Hill, does each team spawn only on their side of the map, since the hills are all along the line of symmetry?

No, all spawns are accessible. Having teams only spawn on one side makes it twice as easy to predict spawns and trap.

Btw, v2 is up, please check my Fileshare.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I would like to run some testing this weekend at around 11:00 CST. If you are interested, post and send a friend request to me.
GT: TheEpicCiabatta.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I am extremely sorry for the triple post, mods please don't smite me.

I just got the Red Ring of Death.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7581/dsc01665ul3.jpg

I will be without a box for a couple weeks while Microsoft does its thing, and will be unable to test for this reason. I am turning over the job of testing to Ssshakedown while I am gone. He will be joint testing my map, his map, and JD's map, so that we will be able to do a collaborative forge project when I return to make Isolation the best it can be.

[TWISTED-BULLET]

I like the changes, if the spawn system works out well I'd love to play CTF, with much better flag placement, and better spawns, should play well.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I like the changes, if the spawn system works out well I'd love to play CTF, with much better flag placement, and better spawns, should play well.

CTF plays well on this map. We played a game with settings identical to Pit's, except for 5 caps instead of 3, and it ran well. I might add the option to have the flag indicator always on.

[-DaZe-]

I like the layout of the weapons and custom, with the exception of the sniper. If I were you, I'd place them somewhere more out in the open like on a wall of the base closer to the flood side of the map. The two teams can contest the overshield similar to the pit. Being able to see the sniper spawn is important and you want to keep the fight above ground.

As for the flag, you should move it back just a tad bit. Right now it seems like you're forcing the player to head down towards the underbase. Just give the player more options to run the flag.

I haven't played the map because my disk drive on my 360 is currently dead -_- so I try to imagine the gameplay in my head. I'm up for the revival of Iso :)