Derelict re-imagining -- Sketchup map

[ssshakedown]

Well I've spent the better part of a week perfecting this Sketchup map, getting everything under the object limit and scrounging enough budget to finish the non-geometry part of the map (and then transferring it all to Fritz's sexy new Sketchup template). I'm leaving for the weekend tomorrow afternoon, so I'll begin Forging this on Monday (and I have the day off, so I'm hoping to get a good amount done). Anyways, pics:

A pair of Overviews
http://i38.tinypic.com/2wn2wsk.png

http://i38.tinypic.com/epj94w.png

Obviously, the Mid structure had to be pared down to fit the map under budget and object limit while keeping the "bases" (the ones on the higher levels, mostly) as large as possible.

I'm going to add some more cover (A/B signs, dumpsters) as soon as I figure out exactly how much budget I have left to work with, especially on the upper level areas where there's no base, and the floor of the map.

Teleporters are most likely going to follow.

A pair of shots of the upper level bases
http://i35.tinypic.com/20hvf7.png

http://i38.tinypic.com/5dl2di.png

Due to Foundry's limitations, I wasn't able to keep Derelict's spacious bases, but I tried my best to keep them as large as I could without sacrificing the map's geometrical symmetry.

The lower bases
http://i36.tinypic.com/244pnjp.png

Bottom Mid
http://i37.tinypic.com/111t1jp.png

As you can tell, this isn't a total remake of Derelict (not even close), nor was it intended to be. It's simply a Derelict "spiritual successor" that shares a lot of similarities.

If you want to look around some more or mess around, you can get the file here [having trouble uploading, link coming].

Hopefully you guys like this. If you have any suggestions or comments, go ahead and post them, I'm open to last minute changes before I start Forging on Monday.

[Zanno]

even halo:ce's teleporters made this map pretty unfair, once a team locks down the top it's really hard to get back control of the map, and unlike halo:ce there's no health so there's no health packs so there's no reason at all to leave the top ring. i don't see any teleporters so i can't figure out what this has to do with derelict to begin with ):?

[THE.08.KiiD]

Health is bottom middle.

[DeathstarsOG]

im not much for remakes, however the simple design and great layout might just bring this one back into the community heart to actually be played often.(not like most remakes that are just there to say you have them) Anyways, hopefully the forging comes out lookin this good and you should have yourself a winner.

[-ImplosioN-]

Shakedown, I could help you forge this if you have any really hard geos or anything. This design looks amazing.

I suggest a Camo bottom middle, and an OS top middle, with alternating spawns. What I mean is, say have the Camo on a 2 minute spawn like normal, and have the OS on a 2 minute spawn, but for the OS, have "spawn at start" disabled. So that it spawns 2 minutes after the game has started. If both teams are timing the powerups, they SHOULD in theory be constantly spawning 2 minutes apart, which would help movement around the map.

[ssshakedown]

Shakedown, I could help you forge this if you have any really hard geos or anything. This design looks amazing.

I suggest a Camo bottom middle, and an OS top middle, with alternating spawns. What I mean is, say have the Camo on a 2 minute spawn like normal, and have the OS on a 2 minute spawn, but for the OS, have "spawn at start" disabled. So that it spawns 2 minutes after the game has started. If both teams are timing the powerups, they SHOULD in theory be constantly spawning 2 minutes apart, which would help movement around the map.
Yeah sure, I'll message you if I have any trouble, though I'm going to try my best to do this one 100% by myself.

I haven't decided on the power items, but I'll certainly keep that in mind.

Zanno -- if you don't see what this has to do with Derelict in the first place, we probably don't have to worry about Derelict's problems crossing over into H3. . .

I'll keep the bottom level's disadvantage in mind, thanks.

[2AMPd]

looking good ssshake

[yourself.]

looks real good. i'm glad you were ale to fit it all into foundry

[-InDi-]

Looks very nice.

[ssshakedown]

Well, Forging should begin tonight. I've got the day off tomorrow, but I'm going to try and squeeze a weekend's worth of social activities in then, so I'm not going to get much done once the sun comes up. Wish me luck. . .

[Andz]

Unbelievable. Best remake idea I've seen in a long time. I tried to do this, and have played numerous remakes/takes on this map. The main issue you have is spawns and cover bottom middle. Players where the tele's are can usually see alot of bottom middle compared to what you'd imagine. Just try and remove all the spawn trapping ;)

[ssshakedown]

Unbelievable. Best remake idea I've seen in a long time. I tried to do this, and have played numerous remakes/takes on this map. The main issue you have is spawns and cover bottom middle. Players where the tele's are can usually see alot of bottom middle compared to what you'd imagine. Just try and remove all the spawn trapping ;)
Yeah, spawns are going to be tough. Once one team has top control there's really not that many ways up if you spawn low. I might end up adding some jump ups around the map to supplement the teleporters if it gets too hard to break a team holding the top of the map.

[Zanno]

Shakedown, I could help you forge this if you have any really hard geos or anything. This design looks amazing.

I suggest a Camo bottom middle, and an OS top middle, with alternating spawns. What I mean is, say have the Camo on a 2 minute spawn like normal, and have the OS on a 2 minute spawn, but for the OS, have "spawn at start" disabled. So that it spawns 2 minutes after the game has started. If both teams are timing the powerups, they SHOULD in theory be constantly spawning 2 minutes apart, which would help movement around the map.no that doesn't make sense at all, they'll only constantly be spawning however long the initial rush is to the powerup apart.

[IWatchVoD]

Good Luck man.

[ssshakedown]

no that doesn't make sense at all, they'll only constantly be spawning however long the initial rush is to the powerup apart.
What do you think about power items? I'm honestly clueless as to what will actually work right now, all I've got is some stuff I'd like to try.

[tHuNdastRucK704]

Add a few jump ups and have a Camo spawn bottom mid, that way the team thats spawning below can grab camo easier and have a chance to break a setup up top. Maybe a Plasma Rifle spawning top mid? Not entirely sure, but I do think a camo would work great for breaking setups.

[ssshakedown]

Add a few jump ups and have a Camo spawn bottom mid, that way the team thats spawning below can grab camo easier and have a chance to break a setup up top. Maybe a Plasma Rifle spawning top mid? Not entirely sure, but I do think a camo would work great for breaking setups.
The only thing there is, 90% of the map has a great view of Bottom Mid (and Mid in general) so I'd be pretty hard to get out of there with Camo, or even an OS (especially with the burn that happens).

[bnasty574]

The only thing there is, 90% of the map has a great view of Bottom Mid (and Mid in general) so I'd be pretty hard to get out of there with Camo, or even an OS (especially with the burn that happens).

Are you implying that because a powerup/weapon takes actual teamwork and skill to successfully receive the reward it shouldn't be used? Because breaking a set up by using legitimate strategy and skill totally shouldn't be what competitive gaming is about. . .

[ssshakedown]

Are you implying that because a powerup/weapon takes actual teamwork and skill to successfully receive the reward it shouldn't be used? Because breaking a set up by using legitimate strategy and skill totally shouldn't be what competitive gaming is about. . .
What's with the hostility? I'm all for making a map competitive and making power items hard to get, but you're sorely underestimating the difficulty of remaining Top Mid on a map like this one long enough to let your shields recharge so you don't burn an OS. A Camo might be better, but you still have the entire map watching you, so it'd be a challenge to escape intact with one. Skill wouldn't be as much a factor as luck, because on a map this size, even if you have four down, you'd have to get pretty lucky to have no one spawn close enough to disrupt a grab 100% of the time.

Besides, let's look at how MLG apparently wants their power-ups. The OS on the Pit is nicely tucked away in a secluded hole that's only frequented when the OS is about it come up. It's almost invisible to the rest of the map. The Camo on Guardian is partially in the open, but it's a small matter to quickly dart out, grab it, and retreat. Of course, you can always be sniped if you don't hold Sniper Tower, but other than that, you've got a good 4 or 5 escape routes once you have the Camo.

[Knightley]

looks sick, hopefully the final will look as good

[ssshakedown]

This is going to take longer than expected. I haven't actually started Forging yet because I picked up Gears 2 the other day, and haven't really touched Halo 3 since. I'm gonna try and start putting in some good time this weekend, probably work through a few nights. The week, however, belongs to Gears.:)

[Dragod]

If you want my opinion, Rockets should be bottom mid, and probably OS on top mid. Rockets provide a huge reward if they are grabbed, which is what you want... It'd be in the center of the map, meaning no unfair advantages to either side. OS on top would require a team to completely dominate a team, spawn kill, then grab it.

I feel like there should be a mauler on the map, but with center areas taken up with Rockets and OS, that would mean you would have to put it on the edge of the map, and to have it be fair there would have to be two maulers in opposite locations..

Also, I'm not seeing any ramps from bottom to top like there is on the actual map... Is it just not shown or did you leave them out for some reason?

Just my thoughts, it looks nice, and I hope you forge it well, too. One suggestion I have is to change the Dumpsters at Top Mid to Doors that are in the center of the pillar. Other than that, it looks great.

[Andz]

Doesn't derelict not have any ramps?

[Dragod]

Oh... I guess derelict doesn't, it had teleporters, correct? I guess it's only in the remake that has ramps... my bad.

[ssshakedown]

If you want my opinion, Rockets should be bottom mid, and probably OS on top mid. Rockets provide a huge reward if they are grabbed, which is what you want... It'd be in the center of the map, meaning no unfair advantages to either side. OS on top would require a team to completely dominate a team, spawn kill, then grab it.

I feel like there should be a mauler on the map, but with center areas taken up with Rockets and OS, that would mean you would have to put it on the edge of the map, and to have it be fair there would have to be two maulers in opposite locations..

Also, I'm not seeing any ramps from bottom to top like there is on the actual map... Is it just not shown or did you leave them out for some reason?

Just my thoughts, it looks nice, and I hope you forge it well, too. One suggestion I have is to change the Dumpsters at Top Mid to Doors that are in the center of the pillar. Other than that, it looks great.
Nice thoughts. I'm going to test a bunch of different weapon configurations, but I like the door idea.

[Andz]

You can have 1 mauler on the map...derelict had 1 Sniper. (Ok it had camo on the other side) But even that can help things out a bit, on the condition its equal distance from the start spawns then both teams can get it equally at the start right?

Then during the game it just comes down to setting up around it. Even then, most people won't set up to get a mauler when there's an OS/Rockets in the middle. Personally, a PR would be better.

[tigaer]

(**** my internet, i had this all typed out and **** then my connection went out.)

Basically, I like what you have so far.
The outer walls of the map can be built way more thought out because right now you have a lot of wasted objects and can be saved with a little bit of changes.

For the middle, I have a nice design for a semi-asymmetric middle it that would have a couple jumps up to the top to break a setup up there so it wont be too over powered.. it should also make rockets a little bit harder to get control of at the beginning and take away the line of sight issue if OS was top mid (it would block the cross map shooting because it cant be shot through.)
What I mean by semi-asym is that the middle would be symmetrical but it would have a difference on both sides on the top to help with OS not being burned alot, since I see that happening alot with your current middle, also help with the LOS issue.
If you want to see what I mean I can make a sketchup for you. Just tell me if you want it.

For the weapon setup, I think you should try a asymmetric weapon layout. Just make sure they counter eachother.

OS top mid > rockets bottom mid.
Camo bottom left base > sniper top right base.

Also the starting spawns would have to be adjusted if you did, usless you put the weapons instead of bases where the teles are in H1.
But, thats if you aren't doing teles.

Thats just my thoughts.

[ssshakedown]

(**** my internet, i had this all typed out and **** then my connection went out.)

Basically, I like what you have so far.
The outer walls of the map can be built way more thought out because right now you have a lot of wasted objects and can be saved with a little bit of changes.

For the middle, I have a nice design for a semi-asymmetric middle it that would have a couple jumps up to the top to break a setup up there so it wont be too over powered.. it should also make rockets a little bit harder to get control of at the beginning and take away the line of sight issue if OS was top mid (it would block the cross map shooting because it cant be shot through.)
What I mean by semi-asym is that the middle would be symmetrical but it would have a difference on both sides on the top to help with OS not being burned alot, since I see that happening alot with your current middle, also help with the LOS issue.
If you want to see what I mean I can make a sketchup for you. Just tell me if you want it.

For the weapon setup, I think you should try a asymmetric weapon layout. Just make sure they counter eachother.

OS top mid > rockets bottom mid.
Camo bottom left base > sniper top right base.

Also the starting spawns would have to be adjusted if you did, usless you put the weapons instead of bases where the teles are in H1.
But, thats if you aren't doing teles.

Thats just my thoughts.
Dude, I'd love to have the help. I'll host the file ASAP, and you can mess with whatever you want (use the file to make sure everything's within limits). Good thing I haven't started Forging, lol.

[USCstreets]

You should use mancannon lifts instead of Teleporters so you can go up both ways and if done right it could be perfect for this map. I was just thinking about doing this map too. also snipers should be in the side hallways on the bottom floor and put an OS top mid. just an idea

[7H3_JUDG3]

You should use mancannon lifts instead of Teleporters

I second this.

[iM_xZonKeD]

How's this coming along? I am looking foward to seeing this because of how creative it looks. Hopefully you have made it so there is more ways up top. The reason because in H2 playing it i remember there was barely anyways up top.

[bnasty574]

Under closer examination, I realized you haven't raised the mid section higher than the outskirts. Although this would seem logical because than it wouldn't be as much of a power spot, you also lose the lines of sight it blocks. The halo 3 BR can't handle shooting all the way across like that, as well as those battles would hardly be legitimate. I'm not sure how much room you have to raise it, but if you can at all, I would strongly recommend it.

[-InDi-]

Well, ssshakedown, this is very impressive.

This here is a C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[ssshakedown]

Under closer examination, I realized you haven't raised the mid section higher than the outskirts. Although this would seem logical because than it wouldn't be as much of a power spot, you also lose the lines of sight it blocks. The halo 3 BR can't handle shooting all the way across like that, as well as those battles would hardly be legitimate. I'm not sure how much room you have to raise it, but if you can at all, I would strongly recommend it.
You want me to raise the middle area (where I have the dumpsters and bridges)? I could probably manage that, but it might throw off the stairs I have there creating cover bottom mid.

[ZephyrSpy]

I did not read through the thread so sorry if its already been said, but have you thought about putting all of the power-ups and weapons on the bottom so people would have a reason to leave the top. Anyways, looks good and I hope it turns out well.

[ssshakedown]

Alright, made some changes to the Sketchup. It's currently slightly over budget, so once I fix that, I'll post the new screenshots. After that, once I get a few opinions, I'll start Forging (hopefully this weekend). Screenshots will be up in an hour or two, once I do some homework.

[Andz]

How is the map going? I'm super excited by it! Hope we can get a testable version soon!

[eXodus III]

I didn't read through so if this was already said then i apologize... but KillaKC made a map derelict inspired called KC's FFA arena... that might be a good map to start with as a canvas if he would allow you too. Peace.

[ssshakedown]

I'm redesigning the middle and outer structures to allow more ways up top to balance the map a bit more. Sketchup screenshots tonight, hopefully.

[HITtheLIGHTZ]

shakedown can you upload a sketchup link using filefront later too? The way the layout works makes it hard to see what going on down at the bottom of the map, plus that way if I saw something I wanted to change I could just make it and show you a picture.

Looking forward to see what you did with it though.

[ssshakedown]

shakedown can you upload a sketchup link using filefront later too? The way the layout works makes it hard to see what going on down at the bottom of the map, plus that way if I saw something I wanted to change I could just make it and show you a picture.

Looking forward to see what you did with it though.
Yeah, it wasn't working earlier, or it would be up now. Once I finish this coming version, I'll for sure put it up.