Epicenter - First map designed for MLG Bomb.

[DeathstarsOG]

EPICENTER


Bomb has been a gametype of much debate in Halo 3. The gametype was acceptable in Halo 2, but without notifications that the bomb is being armed, it didn't transfer into Halo 3 well. With the lack of notifications in mind, Epicenter was designed to play the best Halo 3 can offer for a bomb game.
I also wanted to create a new design, yet keep it very familier to MLG players. It is a 2 base, symmetrical map with 2 lines of symmetry just like Onslaught. Because of this, Most of Onslaughts callouts work perfectly and will help you jump right into this map and feel like home. However this fast paced arena has some interesting curve balls you must learn. To start them off, there is a Active Camo that spawns bottom mid 2 minutes into the game and then every two minutes after that. Camo is extremely powerfull and absolutely must be timed and controlled if your team expects to win. Also, there are mancannons at the back of each teams base used to get the bomb as far away from your base as possible. It will take some practice to be able to throw the bomb in, but it should require some skill to perform as to not make defense too easy. There are carbines at each top A and top B towers along with two plasma rifles at the bottom of each base.
The bomb itself must be armed at the top of the opposing teams base. The map is also setup for all other Team/FFA MLG gametypes and a version of Land Grab using MLG rules. I'll post links to everything you will need to enjoy the map thoroughly at the end of this post.

Here was the sketchup concept of the map, you can see from the pics it has gone through some layout changes and alot of added geometry to make it much more playable:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2zisr46.gif

Map Style:
2 Base Sym w/two lines of symmetry.

Gametypes supported:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2pp0ayv.gif

2-8 Players

Weapons/Powerups:
4 BR's - 10 sec.
2 Carbines's - 90 sec.
2 Plasma Rifles - 120 sec.
4 Frags - 30 sec.
4 Plasmas - 30 sec.
1 Invis - 120 sec.(Not at start)

Pictures:

http://i42.tinypic.com/343iwcp.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/1rswvs.jpg
Here are two overviews looking at Red and Blue bases. Also has a great view of the center structure.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2rpdvn5.jpg
Here's a view of A tower. B tower is identical.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2cmkymv.jpg
Here is a view of Red base, Blue base is identical.

http://i40.tinypic.com/nqwi3c.jpg
Inside each base looks like this. There is a mancannon at the back of them which the Bomb can be thrown into and launched across the map. This is a great tactic to use to technically "Play bomb" if your team is down and the opposing team is pushing in. Here you can see me throwing the bomb in.

http://i44.tinypic.com/wk4dpi.jpg
And lastly, this is a picture of me arming the bomb. It is located at the top portion of each base very visable to all. This is very important for it to play well on Halo 3 because of the lack of notifications. The bomb arm point has two indicators, this allows for strafing while arming the bomb.

Please make sure when playing customs on this, everyone gets a chance to run around on it and possibly practice with the mancannons. Please DL and come back with some reviews. Also please note, the MLG Bomb gametype is not an official MLG gametype, however it is the mostly widely used and accepted Bomb gametype used for MLG. Also MLG Land Grab was created by me. It also uses all MLG rules just with Land Grab in mind. I tried to make this map a step forward in as many directions as possible for the MLG community and hope you guys enjoy it.

Wanna also say thanks to all the people that helped make this map possible. Had alot of testers and alot of people that gave some great feedback. Also thanks to _TaK_ for helping design the epic center(pun intended) and Baron for coming up with the map name.

Download Epicenter (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=64780867)
Download MLG Bomb (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=51263347)
Download MLG Land Grab (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=64619278)

[DeathstarsOG]

Reserved for updates...

[b0b43]

Hooray this has finally been published! I know this has been in the making for a very long time now and it's good to see it finally released. Now that I've looked through in forge, I feel that this map really plays to Halo 3's strengths - it has good, but not overpowering lines of sight, and is very well designed - every point is easily accessible. It looks like it would have a lot of fast paced action, and that is one of Halo 3's main strengths. The execution is also outstanding, as I couldn't find any bumps except for the top mid area, which is to be expected with the very steep ramps. I also like the 2 bomb arm points, as it gives you plenty of room to move when arming the bomb. And finally, PLASMA RIFLE!

However, there were a few things that I didn't like. Firstly, is that the mancannons were inconsistent. When throwing from your arm point into the mancannon it was pretty consistent, although one time I had the bomb go into the other man cannon and come straight back! The main inconsistencies came from when throwing from an angle, as the bomb could end up anywhere. To be fair, this is to be expected when Foundry's mancannons aren't very consistent in the first place, and the fact that I'm throwing from an angle. And as I'm sure you are aware, it is easily possible to get into the mancannon yourself with a grenade jump.

I also am unsure about the Camo. I understand that it is designed to be powerful, but if the Camo person gets the bomb they can arm it very easily, without the other team even noticing. I'm not sure how often this would happen in games, but when it does happen it would be a very big turning point in the game - especially if it was 2-2, and is not fair to the opposing team. You can argue that the camo is meant to be a significant powerup and not getting control is your own fault, but I feel it would be a lot better replaced with an OS.

My last comment is with the middle structure. At first, I didn't like how you could get from one base to the other in 2 jumps but I feel that it would play into the map's strengths. My main complaint about the middle (and I am referring to the top here) is that there is no incentive to go there since it is extremely open. I have the feeling that the same thing could be applied to the A and B towers, since there is no cover. Maybe a mauler would give players a reason to go top mid, but I would really need to see and play on the map before I can make a proper judgement.

I would just like to sum up by saying that I really think that this is your best map to date. I really like it's design and I would really like to see it on the circuit in the near feature. Great job :)

[lumini]

I thought It played very well in the customs today. nice job man

[iamTEALC]

This looks badass. I really hope the map goes somewhere, even though v6 is on its way soon.

Downloaded.

[Fritzster]

The games (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=951079779&player=Fritzster) were fun, but I def need to play a lot more to give solid feedback. So what I have gathered from a few games played is the spawn points we talked about and the blind corners bottom middle. The gametype for bomb you've created was decent and fit the map well. You really need to work on that middle, of course many forgers will instantly disagree with me and you'll probably won't want to change since there's a lot of geometry overlapping, but the map needs to be more open on the overall base level of the map. I also like the red/blue base player movement where it is hard to arm the bomb and harder to disarm.

[sloth44]

id love an mlg bomb game. nuetral bomb is one of my favorite game types. and im with bob on the camo thing.

[SpawN.]

Wow, just wow, this map just looks really good. I'll def. DL it and try it out. Good Job ! ;-)

[IareBodylotion]

Downloaded for testing, im gonna test it with my team later

[Juxer]

I can stream some gameplays on this map tonight (GMT+1) with relatively good players on justin.tv if you'd like.

[Senikai]

i wanna ride a mongoose on it :)..hot wheels anyone?

[fanatic66]

This map looks really sick. I'm glad to see someone make a map specifically for the Bomb. Bomb was one of my favorite gametypes in Halo 2, so I look foward to playing some customs on it.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

Ok, first off I am no MLG fan boy but I love the settings and respect the skill and what not. I loved bomb in H2. And I have been watching this map extremely close. I didn't ask to get involved because no one here knows me. I have extremely high hopes for this map and game. And others to follow. I am extremely excited for this. I am definitely going to be running some games on this. I can't express at how excited I am. I am so happy this is finally released. This will lead to epicness and your name is forever in the MLG history books. I know I am corny but I am really excited. The design and thought process I watched this map go through brings high hopes.

[Ghost828]

That looks really good, gj

[Dicer_of_Skulls]

Three complaints:
1) I feel that many of the double boxes don't have enough cover on them.

2)This map could have the same problem as Epitaph, which is as soon as someone gets shot at, they drop down and run away, and the double boxes could block a ton of fire.

3)I don't think that the center structure should be higher than the bases. I feel that a more level plateau-ish center area would be more appropriate

I want it to be clear that I haven't played on this map AND I also think it looks really good. These are small complaints. :)

[.ReZzO.]

you obviously put a lot of time into this map, and it looks really good.

good job, hopefully later on i can try it out and post my opinion about it later on. good job bro, +rep

[tennisbumm]

Wow looks great i thought that bomb would be a joke, but after ive played this it sounds great, good job.

[Shockeyyy]

I've been looking forward to this map for a while -- DLing now and will respond later with feedback.

[MsB_MaGiC]

The games (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=951079779&player=Fritzster) were fun, but I def need to play a lot more to give solid feedback. So what I have gathered from a few games played is the spawn points we talked about and the blind corners bottom middle. The gametype for bomb you've created was decent and fit the map well. You really need to work on that middle, of course many forgers will instantly disagree with me and you'll probably won't want to change since there's a lot of geometry overlapping, but the map needs to be more open on the overall base level of the map. I also like the red/blue base player movement where it is hard to arm the bomb and harder to disarm.
I disagree a bit with the making it harder to arm and disarm, IMO I think that team work is going to the DECIDING factor, it's not going to be like other game types where people can run behind teams grab flag and sneak past, it's going to be team shot the WHOLE time, this is single handedly going to increase how teams play together, so teams will be much better if they can master this game type. LOVE THE MAP BTW I THINK THIS IS WHAT MLG NEEDS.

[stompum]

looks sick good work

[YRP_Sleepy]

I think the conceptual layout may prove to be good but it just looks too "clunky" with all those double boxes used as ramps. Kinda looks like the bottom or floor would become a nade pit of fire and the perimeter is where the only real BRing would occur. Other than that you did a good job making the textures and connections as smooth as possible. Nice work

[Mech-Warrior-21]

It looks like a sick map. I think it would also do good as an FFA map too.

[HeChT_x]

downloading it now.... looks sweet dude

[bosworth458]

pretty cool the middle looks like a deathtrap to me tho

[Shifttt]

It looks beyond godly, I'm definitely downloading it.

[hobbit_ears]

i have some friends coming over later so i'll be sure to try it out. thanks for this

[J3sSteR]

Looks extremely sick. Queued for download right now.

[Deus_Vult]

that looks like a sick mappp i want it YIDIGG

[Dragod]

I added links to this thread and the map download to the Official Bomb Support Thread v2. Hope you can really get some good feedback on the map.

Anyway, last night we played a few games, and Bomb works well on it... Bottom mid is basically a death sentence if you have the Bomb, but avoid that, and you have to rely on your team to get you to the bomb plant. I really enjoyed playing the map, and I hope this map can really show off Bomb for what it really is.

[Poptart_Revolt]

I messed around with the map earlier.


I didn't try this, just thinking. Is it possible to throw the bomb but miss the mancannon and get it stuck in the area formed by the corner walls/foundry wall.
The middle does seem, wrong. Could it be lowered at all, without messing up the bottom?
Could some kind of cover be added to the middle?Just ideas...

[FascistMittens]

Man, that looks pretty sweet. I'd be more than happy to help anyone who wants to test it. It'd be cool to see a different gametype in MLG.

[Edit: I suppose the link to Ideal Assets was tough luck for me. Oh well, that's the way it breaks ;-) ]

[MalFoxx]

The map looks amazing :o.
And, if there isn't MLG Bomb, there's always CTF/TS/EVERYTHING ELSE haha.

[iTz_SHAH]

this looks like the best foundry map that ive seen and finally a great bomb map

[Suhport]

I remember playing this right when you finished and it was simply amazing. Also you will be pleased to know I have that man-cannon throw down now :] Hopefully I can some more games in on this today.

[_Aceflight]

i hope bomb gets in mlg...good job man

[UpperAka]

looks like it needs more cover to me

[nicka]

Sadly, i was on vacation when you were beta testing this map, so i havent got to play it yet.
I do know, however that the c unt punts in the back of the bases are full of win. :)

Hit me up deathstars, cause i really wanna play it

[JD326]

This is a really good map.

Its has a very ORIGINAL! design that i dont see in alot of maps these days. This and Atrium are definately my two favorite 09' maps with Cenotaph not too far behind. Great job DeathStars OG.

[12evolverOcelot]

Nice Job man.

I will have to try this out

[SaltytlaS]

Once again DeathStar you have created a very unique MLG map. I love the fact that you created this map for the bomb game type. This is one of my favorite game types in Halo2, on midship. I had a lot of fun every game I played on this map, I also like your very creative man cannons on the back of each base. Spawns are relatively fine, I do think the side spawns might need a little work, just because you seem to get spawn killed a lot once you spawn there. Also if the team arms the bomb it's impossible to disarm. Don't get my wrong though, I think this is a very great bomb map, one of a kind. I really hope people will give it a chance.:babychie:

[gh2master1]

Sadly, i was on vacation when you were beta testing this map, so i havent got to play it yet.
I do know, however that the c unt punts in the back of the bases are full of win. :)

Hit me up deathstars, cause i really wanna play it

I would also be interested in playing some customs. If you need someone else send an invite to DEATHSweapon33.

[growlingrevenge]

i downloaded this a couple of days ago, i love it! great job death :mrgreen:

[Chhipz Ahoy]

Will test it out tonight. Looks great, keep up the good work.

[CHRONICBOREDOM]

Looks really good, I'll try to run games on it today.

[Divide]

Just played a few customs on it, and it runs great.. After a little more testing ill post some more feedback

[Iska]

I've played this map. Personally I don't like it for a team gametype.

[mogl13]

I love this map, it reminds me of Alien vs Predator when predator is fighting all the aliens off the pyramid.lol:grunt:

[WaterBoy72]

Ran bomb customs on this and they were AWESOME!!! This map has to be in v6!

[pwnstar199]

damn dude, you're a master with forge. that is absolutely sick. i cant wait to run some customs on it

[TheEpicCiabatta]

I had a big long post typed out and the forums nommed it. I'll just tell you ingame. In short, great map.

[ssshakedown]

I had a big long post typed out and the forums nommed it. I'll just tell you ingame. In short, great map.
Noob! Everyone knows to use the Ctrl A + Ctrl C combo before pressing submit.

On topic. . .
Looks great so far. I like that you didn't go the way of adding random cover everywhere, but we'll see how it worked in practice when I run games on this. The thing I most want to take a look at is the gametype, so I'll DL that as well.

The only possible issues that I can see from reading the thread and checking out the screenshots is the mancannons. It's a great idea, and I thought it was the sweetest thing I'd even seen tried until I saw someone mentioning inconsistency. If that is the case, you might want to either try your best to make those like 90% consistent, or try another method. One thing you could do is set bomb reset time to 5 or 10 seconds (no idea what it is now) and just remove the mancannons and allow someone to throw it in those pockets. It'd be kinda like playing Ball, but a longer. The problem with that is the possibility of teams grenade jumping in there and camping, but a few well placed grenades would put them down.

[Nephisto]

this map does work



-------------------------

[Sp00ly]

This map is absolutely amazing! If this doesnt get bomb into v6 nothing will. Great Job dude! :smile:

[iPhillyPhan]

the map reminds me of that game show I watched when I was younger, global guts haha

[Scriptix]

this is a pretty amazing map, and is perfect for bomb and any obj. ( obviously by the thread its self ).

[II Devastate II]

looks good ill try it out later tonight

[RehnX]

I just ran a few games on it.

Pros:


Fast paced bomb feels a LOT Like middy
Overall layout is perfect for Bomb
Plasma Rifle for the win


Cons:

Camo feels way overpowered and once it spawns if the other team is down it is an easy 1 to 2 arms
The Man-cannons sometimes launch it into the other man-cannon which ends badly(Bomb landed our "Plat")
Spawns felt Awkward for the most part..I mostly would spawn right next to a blue player(I was red)


Overall a 5-star map though..This is amazing.

I will be running games tonight if anyone wants to test send Me a FR(Sig)

[IVs Syked]

Noob! Everyone knows to use the Ctrl A + Ctrl C combo before pressing submit.


Yeah, but it's a risky play. Because you can choke and hit Ctrl A + Ctrl V, then just pasting in whatever was on your cliipboard before and taking away all your precious writings!

[IVs Syked]

I must admit, I am most impressed with the creativity of thinking of putting in those mancannons. That is inspired.

[DeathstarsOG]

Wow, did not think this thread would blow up like this. Let me get to some replies.

@bob43
The mancannons are a little on the inconsistent side, however the main goal of the mancannon is to get the Bomb THE HELL out of your base while your teams down. As far as where it lands think of it like a football kick return. It could land anywhere. However, the fact of it going from one mancannon to the other and back, that does need some fixing. Also grenade jumping into the mancannon wasn't a big deal to me, if you want to fly across the map with no shields be my guest. I have an idea to fix the issue of the bomb flying into the opposite mancannon that I can try out on an updated version.
To replacing the camo with OS, it's not going to happen. The camo creates a real team struggle and awareness in gameplay that I've never seen before. It also helps this map show a true case of teamwork, as the team that works better together wins, not the team with more kills. Also Camo is not guarenteed arm. I've had just as many stops on a camo guy arming than them being able to arm it.
Top mid is also heavily trafficed as it's quick access into the bomb plant on either base. Top mid and bottom mid are definately not the greatest place to be on the map, however the risk vs. reward is what must be considered. Also using the angles of the A and B towers along with the side angles of top mid, the geometry themselves creates cover while your on the ramp portion. You have to use the geometry for your cover. I did not go around the map adding any of the lazy cover you may see on actual maps. I used the map itself to perform this duty as any good designer should.

@Fritzster
If you have some time, I'd like to go over some ideas with you, i'm always open for suggestions.

@Juxer
I would love that. Post a link in here with a time that you could possibly be doing it. It would be amazing for some real input on others playing.

@Dicer_of_Skulls
1. Cover on this map is all natural part of the geometry. No lazy cover was added around the map and it plays well like this. Have you played games on it yet?
2. I have actually heard the opposite problem of not being able to get away, personal preferences I guess.
3. The center is roughly a wall thickness higher than the base, and the A and B towers are a wall thickness higher than the center. What is Plateau'ing all of these structures going to do?

@YRP_Sleepy
Bottom mid is a nade pit, but it's a risk vs. reward thing. If you want to risk getting camo down there, you might eat a few grenades.

@Dragod
Thanks for all your support and help in designing this map and making it the best it can be.

@Poptar_Revolt
1. No that is not possible, the bomb can't be thrown that far.
2. Lowering the center would definately make the bottom MUCH more unpleasant than it already is. I originally had it higher, but it needed to be lowered to fix a few problems.
3.No, use the ramps that lead up to top mid as your cover. There is nothing better to use.

@SaltytlaS
The spawns have been re-worked since you helped test. They work much better now in this released version. As far as gametype settings, i'm just using what Dragod has made most widely accepted. If it needs small tweaks here and there, thats not a big deal. Although I think the arm settings are pretty much perfect.

@growlingrevenge
You need to re-DL the map. The release version has ALOT of changes and updates from any other test version.

@Iska
Can you explain why? Thats just very veague feedback for me to work on improving the map.

@ssshakedown
Setting the bomb reset time that low will destroy the gameplay just to make it act like playing ball. Definately can't happen. As far as the mancannons, it can only be as consistent as you are throwing it in. I have window panels on the map for you to walk from to throw the bomb in. It help create a common way to throw the bomb in for more consistent results. I can test a few things out though, and ideas are welcome.

@Rehnx
1.Both teams should be preparing for camo to spawn 30 seconds before it does. If you get downed, it's part of the game.
2.Yes the throw back of the mancannon needs to be fixed. I'll be working on that for the next update on the map.
3. The spawns should act very similar to Onslaught yet less predictable. Also, you constantly pushing into the other teams base and vice versa will stress the spawn system a bit. This happens the same on Onslaught and can be controlled easily with team work. If it's really bad though, can you send me a video of the gameplay so I can see?

@EVERYONE
Thank you for the comments and attention this map has already recieved. It does need some work still and your comments are really helping. Keep them coming. Also lets hear some more feedback from people that have played games on this.
If you are downloading the map, you need to download the MLG Bomb gametype as well. You may have a different version of Dragod's Bomb settings that won't play correctly with the map. Once again, thanks guys.

EDIT:
Has anyone tried the Land Grab gametype yet? It's very experimental and I was just wondering what impressions of a 4v4 plays like for everyone. If you've tried that also, please let me know what you thought.

[RehnX]

@Rehnx
1.Both teams should be preparing for camo to spawn 30 seconds before it does. If you get downed, it's part of the game.

True, However out of the games I have played...It seems too fast paced to be able to effectively set up and is more a "Who can throw the most nades" game..Meh, I will play more games before I judge it on this. Though I still think the map is to small for camo(though this is only my opinion and most people seem to be fine with camo on it)




3. The spawns should act very similar to Onslaught yet less predictable. Also, you constantly pushing into the other teams base and vice versa will stress the spawn system a bit. This happens the same on Onslaught and can be controlled easily with team work. If it's really bad though, can you send me a video of the gameplay so I can see?


hmm, I will keep playing and post if I notice more like that..There was one that I remember that was really bad..But yeah if its supposed to be like onslaught I guess its fine...It plays similarly only without the Ping-pong spawns.

[SkGzxWallE]

Man I can't wait to play this...looks sweet bro.

[Dicer_of_Skulls]

@Dicer_of_Skulls
1. Cover on this map is all natural part of the geometry. No lazy cover was added around the map and it plays well like this. Have you played games on it yet?
2. I have actually heard the opposite problem of not being able to get away, personal preferences I guess.
3. The center is roughly a wall thickness higher than the base, and the A and B towers are a wall thickness higher than the center. What is Plateau'ing all of these structures going to do?



I actually didn't realize that you can jump up onto the double box if you crouch. That negates my 2. The reason I thought lowering the center would be good was because I thought it would make base-to-base shooting easier.

These were just things I caught from the screenshots. Since then I have played on the map and enjoyed it.

[Shad0wNinja2]

Overall i thought the layout of this map was amazing, although in the games that were ran on it no one ever even touched the plasma rifle, if i may make a suggestion, replace them with carbines and 4 more plasmas , 2 for each side, i changed it on my own and thought it was a much more challenging game. You are more than welcome to completely disregard this but i think it might be worth looking into. Peace.

[TheUnitarian]

nice map

[lumini]

ran some more customs on it today and it played well once again. it was very fun and intense

[HoBgObLiN]

This map looks sick. Downloading it now.:p

[-Ender-]

I agree with the people that said Camo is too powerful in bomb, and it also seems like the lifts are unnecessary. Getting a bomb out of your base should not be easy, especially if you are sending it out so far away and the opponents cannot do anything to stop you. I also think the lifts would add a bit of inconsistency to gameplay since man cannons don't always send objects the same distance or direction.

[nicka]

I agree with the people that said Camo is too powerful in bomb, and it also seems like the lifts are unnecessary. Getting a bomb out of your base should not be easy, especially if you are sending it out so far away and the opponents cannot do anything to stop you. I also think the lifts would add a bit of inconsistency to gameplay since man cannons don't always send objects the same distance or direction.

It is actually extremely hard to get the bomb into the c unt punts.
Not only can you solely do it from the very very corner of the top arming platform, but it is a very challenging throw to make it in.

[DeathstarsOG]

@Dicer_of_Skulls
I don't want to encourage base to base shooting. The BR isn't very effective at those ranges and therefore the design wouldn't help play to the strong points of Halo 3. Glad you enjoyed it though.

@ShadowNinja2
There are already 2 carbines on the map, adding more isn't going to do anything. Also adding more grenades would make the nade fest in the center a more apparent problem. The plasma rifles have been used plenty in all the games i've ran and are great for the amount of CQB areas on the map.

@Ender
Yes, I realize Camo is powerful. I knew this when I designed and built the map. I wanted this map to push your team skills to the limit and have something that creates movement/teamwork/map control and I managed to do that with one powerup. The map would not be the same without Camo, it wouldn't be as fun, competetive or interesting to play either. It is NOT being removed.
As far as the mancannons, I have spaced them far enough away for them to take practice to use. Have you played a game on it yet Ender? Making the Bomb in the lift under pressure and while getting shot at is difficult. I had others say that it was too hard to make. I made one final adjustmant before release to balance them where it's not too easy or too hard. And like I said about the inconsistencies of where it lands, it doesn't matter as long as it's far from your base. Like I said before, think of it as a kick return in football.
Nuetral bomb on this map plays extremely similar to football and thats a good thing. That comparison could really open up some intense strategies in the most competetive play.

@Nicka
You need to play it again soon, there has been some changes/improvements since you seen it last.

[XzampleZZ]

I am completely for MLG Bomb and if it was on the circuit, this would be a great map for it to be on. Good Job.:!:

[nicka]

@Nicka
You need to play it again soon, there has been some changes/improvements since you seen it last.

Yea sure.
I dont have work till Friday, so i'll definitely run some games this week with everyone.

We were actually about to play some games on it today, but i left to play some soccer before the superbowl

[Shockeyyy]

I agree with the people that said Camo is too powerful in bomb, and it also seems like the lifts are unnecessary. Getting a bomb out of your base should not be easy, especially if you are sending it out so far away and the opponents cannot do anything to stop you. I also think the lifts would add a bit of inconsistency to gameplay since man cannons don't always send objects the same distance or direction.Yeah, I think the mancannons are a bit superfluous. Back in the H2 days with Bomb on Middy, it was enough just to toss the bomb out of the base to reset the arm time. Such a maneuver was only used as a last-ditch effort by a team that had been outplayed, and didn't buy much of a significant advantage, if any at all. This means that, unless the defending team was able to re-group and re-establish control of the map quickly, tossing the bomb out of the base only prolonged an inevitable plant.

On Epicenter, I feel like the mancannons act like too much of a crutch for the defending team. If the arming team has established control of the map such that the defenders' only option to prevent a plant is to hurl the bomb out of the base, then the defending team doesn't deserve a "get out of jail free card." By tossing the bomb in the mancannon, the defenders essentially negate most of the attacking team's effort and force the attackers to break their own set-up, since the bomb usually ends up in the opposite base.

The map is fantastic, but I think it would be better without the mancannons.

[b0b43]

Wow, did not think this thread would blow up like this. Let me get to some replies.

@bob43
The mancannons are a little on the inconsistent side, however the main goal of the mancannon is to get the Bomb THE HELL out of your base while your teams down. As far as where it lands think of it like a football kick return. It could land anywhere. However, the fact of it going from one mancannon to the other and back, that does need some fixing. Also grenade jumping into the mancannon wasn't a big deal to me, if you want to fly across the map with no shields be my guest. I have an idea to fix the issue of the bomb flying into the opposite mancannon that I can try out on an updated version.
To replacing the camo with OS, it's not going to happen. The camo creates a real team struggle and awareness in gameplay that I've never seen before. It also helps this map show a true case of teamwork, as the team that works better together wins, not the team with more kills. Also Camo is not guarenteed arm. I've had just as many stops on a camo guy arming than them being able to arm it.
Top mid is also heavily trafficed as it's quick access into the bomb plant on either base. Top mid and bottom mid are definately not the greatest place to be on the map, however the risk vs. reward is what must be considered. Also using the angles of the A and B towers along with the side angles of top mid, the geometry themselves creates cover while your on the ramp portion. You have to use the geometry for your cover. I did not go around the map adding any of the lazy cover you may see on actual maps. I used the map itself to perform this duty as any good designer should.


I hope you realise that the thread blowing out is a good thing :)

I agree with the other people in how the mancannons can be too powerful, but I do agree with you on how it can be hard to do. I can't make judged decision without playing the map, but I am seeing that having inconsitency in the mancannon may be a good thing, because if you player sneaks to the opposing side of the map without the other team knowing, if the bomb as guarunteed to land in the same spot every time he can take advantage of it. Comparing to a punt makes more sense, and even though I'm Australian I get the analogy. I didn't really think that grenade jumping into the mancannon is a great strategy either, I just wanted you make sure you were aware of it.

I also understand your point on not making the towers too powerful, and I have come to agree with you now. I just have a thing at the moment for middle sections not being powerful enough and not worth controlling (see Amp, Ons) and I like to see maps with powerful middles. I like the middle design a lot, but it is just a personal thing of mine seeing maps with middles that are almost pointless.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on the camo point however. I understand that I haven't played on the map yet and I need to to make a worthwile opinion, but I feel Camo is still going to be overpowered. With an OS, the bomb carrier can still be seen, but on full shields could probably avoid being killed while arming the bomb. After considering it more, I feel you that if the Camo goes, the mancannon goes because bother are powerful for the offensive and defensive teams. Again, after playing it I could make a more genuine opinion after seeing the pace of the map, but I feel that is how it works.

Overall, these are really minor complaints. I still think that this is a fantastic map and the fact that the only complaints have been Camo and mancannons (and occasionally spawns, but every map has bad spawns) is a tribute to how well you have done with it. And what makes it even more remarkable is that it is a subjective complaint, not an objective complaint. Again, fantastic job.

[DimmestBread]

can't you grab camo, the bomb, start to arm it, and nobody will know you are arming it? Correct me if i'm wrong but that could be a bit of a problem.

[Sp00ly]

can't you grab camo, the bomb, start to arm it, and nobody will know you are arming it? Correct me if i'm wrong but that could be a bit of a problem.

Yeah thats right. But if you know the other team has the bomb and camo then you can just watch your plant point more closely, chuck some nades on it, whatever. I like the camo, it encourages teamwork and communication.

[mlhockey16]

I shouldn't have read this thread in my 1st hour computers class seeing how now i can't wait to go home and run some bomb games. The camo seems like it wouldnt exactly be an overpowering thing since, even though i haven't played on it, the map doesn't seem the kind that you can just pick up the bomb, get out of site, and get the the opponents base without someone hitting you with a stray nade or even seeing you. But even so without playing it i can't make a valid opinion on how it works, even OS seems like it would work pretty well.

[PbsRockin]

pretty sick man i hope it makes it

[yourself.]

Yeah, I think the mancannons are a bit superfluous. Back in the H2 days with Bomb on Middy, it was enough just to toss the bomb out of the base to reset the arm time. Such a maneuver was only used as a last-ditch effort by a team that had been outplayed, and didn't buy much of a significant advantage, if any at all. This means that, unless the defending team was able to re-group and re-establish control of the map quickly, tossing the bomb out of the base only prolonged an inevitable plant.

On Epicenter, I feel like the mancannons act like too much of a crutch for the defending team. If the arming team has established control of the map such that the defenders' only option to prevent a plant is to hurl the bomb out of the base, then the defending team doesn't deserve a "get out of jail free card." By tossing the bomb in the mancannon, the defenders essentially negate most of the attacking team's effort and force the attackers to break their own set-up, since the bomb usually ends up in the opposite base.

The map is fantastic, but I think it would be better without the mancannons.
In order to throw the ball into the mancannon, you would have to hold a ball in the most exposed part of your base while getting team-shotted. You must then throw the ball into the mancannon in order for you to punt it away.
The distance of the mancannon along with the openness of the bomb plant area makes the punt extremely hard to do. Have you played the map?

[D00Man8]

This map is pretty awesome. I love the idea behind it and how well the forging was done. Like a few other people have said though the man cannons are kinda iffy. They are not consistent at all. I would get rid of them and just have throwing the bomb down the way to get it away (like in popular bomb games of halo 2). Other than that everything looks and plays good. If you ever need people to test with send me an invite. (GT in sig)

[ItzToph]

I would love to run some bomb games. Middy bomb was one of my favorite gametypes if anyone has some customs going later add my gt KW T0PH the o is a zero.

[Shockeyyy]

In order to throw the ball into the mancannon, you would have to hold a ball in the most exposed part of your base while getting team-shotted. You must then throw the ball into the mancannon in order for you to punt it away.
The distance of the mancannon along with the openness of the bomb plant area makes the punt extremely hard to do. Have you played the map?Yes I've played it (twice, actually), and I agree that the "punt" is difficult to execute, especially when a team is being spawn-trapped. And even though I only saw a handful of successful punts in my two games on the map, I still don't think that they're necessary for the map to play well. When someone was successful in punting the bomb, it had a much more profound effect than just clearing the bomb out of the base -- it gave the entire defending team a chance to spawn safely, and push towards the bomb. If the bomb ended up in the attacking team's base, the defenders suddenly had much less work to do towards planting. Like I said, I know that the mancannon punt is not easy to execute; however, I don't like how (in my playtests, at least) the roles of offense/defense were so quickly reversed by one simple action. I know I only ran two games on the map (with players who weren't very good), but I don't think I'm going to change my mind about the mancannons.

[youngpunk19]

i support this!
it really looks good and would love to run customs on it if i didn't have redbar at college :-(

[Cobaltz]

nice map. I support.

[yourself.]

Yes I've played it (twice, actually), and I agree that the "punt" is difficult to execute, especially when a team is being spawn-trapped. And even though I only saw a handful of successful punts in my two games on the map, I still don't think that they're necessary for the map to play well. When someone was successful in punting the bomb, it had a much more profound effect than just clearing the bomb out of the base -- it gave the entire defending team a chance to spawn safely, and push towards the bomb. If the bomb ended up in the attacking team's base, the defenders suddenly had much less work to do towards planting. Like I said, I know that the mancannon punt is not easy to execute; however, I don't like how (in my playtests, at least) the roles of offense/defense were so quickly reversed by one simple action. I know I only ran two games on the map (with players who weren't very good), but I don't think I'm going to change my mind about the mancannons.

Fair enough. I would suggest playing with better people. That way the attacking team would only send one person back to get the bomb while the others do their best to keep the defending team on spawn.

[eNtitY~]

Deathstar the map looks good and seems awesome but the main reason bomb isn't used (IMO) is because its easier in H3, and not as fun to watch, also because it seemed to be a last resort gametype when MLG needed a filler. In H2 someone has to hold the bomb the entire 5 seconds it was being armed, it wasn't where you could set it down and camp the base. It took more coordination and teamwork because you had to keep the team spawning out of their base and be on respawn to have the guy plant it. It would be boring to watch in H3 because you just set it down, camp spawn and hold them off. Not as skillful.

The mancannon thing is "cool" but also newb, if you can easily throw the bomb out of your base its to easy to defend, watch H2 games and see what made it great. A mancannon would ruin much of what made the gametype competitive IMO.

Looks like a sick TS map though.

[Shockeyyy]

Fair enough. I would suggest playing with better people. That way the attacking team would only send one person back to get the bomb while the others do their best to keep the defending team on spawn.Yeah, looking back now, I think that my experience with the mancannons may have had more to do with the skill level of the people I was playing with rather than the mancannons themselves. I'm still not a fan, but I can see how my results may not reflect the results of the majority.

Deathstar the map looks good and seems awesome but the main reason bomb isn't used (IMO) is because its easier in H3, and not as fun to watch, also because it seemed to be a last resort gametype when MLG needed a filler. In H2 someone has to hold the bomb the entire 5 seconds it was being armed, it wasn't where you could set it down and camp the base. It took more coordination and teamwork because you had to keep the team spawning out of their base and be on respawn to have the guy plant it. It would be boring to watch in H3 because you just set it down, camp spawn and hold them off. Not as skillful.The MLG Bomb gametype in the OP functions identically to the Halo 2 version of Neutral Bomb.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

Time of my life last night. Getting spawn trapped sucks, but it takes time to get into position. Getting that bomb into the mancannon is not easy. I got it in once out of the 4 trillion times I tried. I personally would like it a bit lower. But I am not a skilled player, so that could be the problem.

The only real issue I had, is the invis. I am going to move it to top mid and run some games again. But with the same settings that you have for it. Just a thought.

- Lower mancannon bomb punting thingies for the bad kids
- Camo top mid but with the same settings.

No I have not tried the Land Grab game yet. I do plan on it though.

[EclipsedWarrior]

i think it would be nice to have bomb in MLG. its been a while since i played MLG bomb since the halo 2 days

[iSayers]

i would just like to say that the map is awesome i ran some games on it , it was nice..

now the only thing i dont really like is the camo, sure timing it is all important the team who can do this the best "should" win ... but i think and this is just my opinion, anyway that a OS would be much more suitable just for the fact they cant sneak in and plan the bomb and the other team is like OMG WTF!!!????!?!?!

the OS would still provide an advantage but you wouldnt be invis with a bomb ..

the only other thing is the spawns but hey great map dude

[DeathstarsOG]

Some say to make the mancannon throw easier, some say make it harder. It is placed in a spot that needs practice to learn so it's not too easy to defend yet on the same note, not impossible to make. This to me sounds like more personal preference than anything else. Learn the mancannons and use them to the best you can for right now. If the next update calls for it, the punts will be removed.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

Some say to make the mancannon throw easier, some say make it harder. It is placed in a spot that needs practice to learn so it's not too easy to defend yet on the same note, not impossible to make. This to me sounds like more personal preference than anything else. Learn the mancannons and use them to the best you can for right now. If the next update calls for it, the punts will be removed.

This is what I was thinking. I knew it was going to require skill from your first post. This is why I knew it wouldn't be too easy. I lack skill, hence it is hard for me. But it isn't that hard to jump off the front of your base with it either. All though, I would like to know what you think about putting Camo at top mid?

[Juxer]

Streaming gameplay on this map right now @ www.justin.tv/juxer

[DimmestBread]

do you think you could make a bomb gametype that uses the custom powerup and it gives you camo, just not for quite as long as default. It was a bit crazy.

[CalmBiohazard]

This map plays amazing. I disagree with everyone in this thread that the camo is OP. The Camo takes teamwork and skill to time and survive while in bottom mid. Not only that, a person has to be blind to not see the lumbering bomb holder w a camo. Didn't anyone learn anything from Arnold in Predator?

The "punting" of the bomb is an amazing addition to game-play. Grats to the designer for that. Yet, there are some flaws with its design. The sheer fact that u can transport the bomb into the other teams base on a chance does not sit well with me. The randomness of where is lands is great, it just shouldn't land in the opposing teams base. I suggest putting a backstop above top center so the bomb can hit that and land somewhere in the middle after a successful "punt".

And btw you deserve a medal of honor for bringing the word "punt" into Halo. :)

[DeathstarsOG]

This map plays amazing. I disagree with everyone in this thread that the camo is OP. The Camo takes teamwork and skill to time and survive while in bottom mid. Not only that, a person has to be blind to not see the lumbering bomb holder w a camo. Didn't anyone learn anything from Arnold in Predator?

The "punting" of the bomb is an amazing addition to game-play. Grats to the designer for that. Yet, there are some flaws with its design. The sheer fact that u can transport the bomb into the other teams base on a chance does not sit well with me. The randomness of where is lands is great, it just shouldn't land in the opposing teams base. I suggest putting a backstop above top center so the bomb can hit that and land somewhere in the middle after a successful "punt".

And btw you deserve a medal of honor for bringing the word "punt" into Halo. :)
I actually have something just like this using a corner wall that will more than likely be in the next update. Also I have heard people are having spawning issues. The only thing I can say is it will spawn similar to Ons(except less predictable), and people have been dealing with that forever. However, there are a few kinks in it that can be worked out which I will. Alot of the problems with spawns are the fact that you spawn on your own side no matter what in this gametype, and the other team is constantly pushing forward into your base. And with the size of foundry, these issues all added together can really stress the spawn system. I'll work on it some more though and see what I can come up with.

BTW, I wanna say thanks to Juxer for running some streaming footage of a few Epicenter games today.
For those of you that missed it today, follow this link: www.justin.tv/juxer
tomorrow at around 11am U.S. Pacific time which would be 2pm Eastern time for some more live footage of Epicenter Bomb.

[SiZiKv5]

Hey, i have some criticism although i thnk this is amazing and almost flawless, the map is perfect for bomb and the camo works really well. Just a few things

Bomb
1.When you pick up the bomb there is no waypoint for where you have to plant the bomb.
2. The mancannons are very well constructed and it is good that the players cant access them but it is way too difficult to get the bomb in them, especially when you are being shot, they just need to be a bid easier to throw the bomb into.

Land Grab
I am one of the few that is enthusiastic about LG in MLG, but one thing that i know for sure is that rounds will not work no matter what, this needs to be made into one big round of land grab, if you can make this competetive then you will be a hero but i certaintly have struggled to be able to do this.

[Shockeyyy]

- Lower mancannon bomb punting thingies for the bad kidsI really don't think that the mancannons need to be lowered at all. The whole point of their existence is to offer a skillful way to move the bomb, with a high degree of risk v. reward. "Lowering" them would not only decrease their skillful nature, but it would diminish the importance of map control and drastically change the way the gametype plays. If they were easy to access and there was no challenge involved in using them to move the bomb, then they would play a much more influential part in how the map flows and how teams set-up, and their random properties would have a much more significant impact on the outcome.

Granted, I'm of the opinion that they should be removed completely, so take my analysis with a grain of salt.

[iTh3_Riddler]

This map is so cool :smile: Nicely done

[DeathstarsOG]

Hey, i have some criticism although i thnk this is amazing and almost flawless, the map is perfect for bomb and the camo works really well. Just a few things

Bomb
1.When you pick up the bomb there is no waypoint for where you have to plant the bomb.
2. The mancannons are very well constructed and it is good that the players cant access them but it is way too difficult to get the bomb in them, especially when you are being shot, they just need to be a bid easier to throw the bomb into.

Land Grab
I am one of the few that is enthusiastic about LG in MLG, but one thing that i know for sure is that rounds will not work no matter what, this needs to be made into one big round of land grab, if you can make this competetive then you will be a hero but i certaintly have struggled to be able to do this.
Well obviously you haven't played an actual game on the map. Sounds like you ran around on it and that was it.
When you play by yourself, there is no marker for a plant point because there is no other team. Play a game and you will see the markers.
The mancannons are not hard to make the bomb in, but they also aren't easy. They are at a perfectly balanced distance to be able to run/jump/throw the bomb into from the window panel at the tops of each base. Practice at it and you will get it.
Land grab was something to try out. It ended up working well enough for me to add it to the gametypes. If you don't enjoy it or don't want to give it a chance, thats up to you. Not sure why you say it needs to be one round though.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

I really don't think that the mancannons need to be lowered at all. The whole point of their existence is to offer a skillful way to move the bomb, with a high degree of risk v. reward. "Lowering" them would not only decrease their skillful nature, but it would diminish the importance of map control and drastically change the way the gametype plays. If they were easy to access and there was no challenge involved in using them to move the bomb, then they would play a much more influential part in how the map flows and how teams set-up, and their random properties would have a much more significant impact on the outcome.

Granted, I'm of the opinion that they should be removed completely, so take my analysis with a grain of salt.

Honestly, I hadn't played it enough (3 games or so) to have any real feedback other then "amazing map". So the only thing I could come up with were to put the invis top mid and lower the man cannon for the bad kids. Honestly, I have nothing bad to say about this or suggest changing.

[Baron Saturday]

I really enjoyed the game I played with you on this last night Deathstars. The map has some beautiful shapes and angles. Tasty business indeed. I also think the gametype works very well with the layout.

[MrSnugglez90]

looks very solid and i cant wait to test it out. i'm currently working on a project that will support bomb as well. i'll give you a link when i'm finished.

[Ladnil]

The mancannons are not hard to make the bomb in, but they also aren't easy. They are at a perfectly balanced distance to be able to run/jump/throw the bomb into from the window panel at the tops of each base. Practice at it and you will get it.
Now, I have not tested this map, only read the feedback and checked out the screenshots, but considering all the complaints about the punts, I figure I'll offer my idea. Place the cannon outside Foundry's walls so that just a fraction of the stream gets in. That way you won't be restricted by having to wall it in with a corner wall, and it will only punt objects not people.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1796/dis1tw2.jpg
This is what I'm talking about, from BuddhaCrane's map Distortion. Place the punt where you want it, and don't worry about people hopping in as it will only toss objects.

[Winkleson]

I like this idea from ladnil it would work well also is camo bottom mid beacause if it is i think it should be top mid that way it would be a way larger challenge to go and get it

my own 2 cents

[Spaceneil8]

Now, I have not tested this map, only read the feedback and checked out the screenshots, but considering all the complaints about the punts, I figure I'll offer my idea. Place the cannon outside Foundry's walls so that just a fraction of the stream gets in. That way you won't be restricted by having to wall it in with a corner wall, and it will only punt objects not people.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1796/dis1tw2.jpg
This is what I'm talking about, from BuddhaCrane's map Distortion. Place the punt where you want it, and don't worry about people hopping in as it will only toss objects.
If you jump high enough in distortion that man cannons will effect you, and you will hover.

[Ladnil]

If you jump high enough in distortion that man cannons will effect you, and you will hover.
The hovering is because he also placed additional grav lifts above the ceiling, and you(and your weapons) stick to those. That's why he calls it his antigravity room.

[DeathstarsOG]

Now, I have not tested this map, only read the feedback and checked out the screenshots, but considering all the complaints about the punts, I figure I'll offer my idea. Place the cannon outside Foundry's walls so that just a fraction of the stream gets in. That way you won't be restricted by having to wall it in with a corner wall, and it will only punt objects not people.
This is what I'm talking about, from BuddhaCrane's map Distortion. Place the punt where you want it, and don't worry about people hopping in as it will only toss objects.
In doing this, not only would I make the mancannons pointless, they will also be impossible to reach. Not only that but the wall corners that house the mancannons are used to block lines of sight from each bases A side to B side. Please play the map before coming to any conclusions like this. For my next update, the mancannons are alot more consistent now, and they also don't launch the bomb all the way into the opposite teams base. This should fix most problems that people are having with it.
As for Camo being put top mid, it can't be done. Most of the time one team is controlling top mid as it is a good posistion to be and team shoot or callout. Where as bottom mid is not. You have to actually risk yourself to grab camo bottom mid. However I will be removing all 4 frag grenades from the map as well on the next update to make bottom mid less of a nade hole. Besides those few things, spawns will be worked on a bit. I am going to try removing the side spawns that are under the bridge along with a few other minor tweaks.
Side note, Juxer has been able to live stream some gameplay of the map and soon I will have some video clips of the gameplay added to the first post for you guys to see. I'm trying to get him the updated version of the map also before he records the gameplay though.

[Soulful_Spitin]

If you need anymore test Deathstar you know I'm willing to throw my body into the mancannon.

[DeathstarsOG]

If you need anymore test Deathstar you know I'm willing to throw my body into the mancannon.
As soon as I can renew my Gold subscription I will be running some tests on a v2. Everyone can expect to get spammed with invites for it if I see you on.

Side note, I noticed that half of the less than half of the people that downloaded the map, did not download the Bomb gametype. Maybe you already have it, or maybe your not playing Bomb on the map. Regardless for those of you that may have missed it, the map was designed to support MLG Bomb. That being said, alot of you probably need to go back to the first post and download the MLG Bomb gametype. If your not into Bomb and don't really support it getting into MLG then whatever, the map will play all other MLG gametypes.
Also, still trying to get some gameplay video up, hopefully will soon.

[agent_windex]

This map is great. Should defanitly be a v6 bomb map, if there is bomb.

[Soulful_Spitin]

1. Besides those few things, spawns will be worked on a bit. I am going to try removing the side spawns that are under the bridge along with a few other minor tweaks.


2. As soon as I can renew my Gold subscription I will be running some tests on a v2. Everyone can expect to get spammed with invites for it if I see you on.

1. I didn't really have problems with those spawns, but I think maybe keep like two under the bridge.
2. I can also help test the Mancannon in v2. I've been doing some test with the beta/v1 and if it gets thrown the wrong way it will short lift bottom mid and I've had it double lifted but I think that's the most it will go. Although, on that note, hopefully v2 will have a better mancannon.

[QodLyyy]

Oh
My
Gawd

Epic.

[RedMill]

Just wanted to say how awesome this map is, anyone reading this who hasn't downloaded yet needs to give it a go. I played my first few customs on it yesterday and fell in love, MLG Bomb definitely deserves a place on the circuit and this map is so mind-blowingly perfect for the gametype. It is truly brilliant, would've been the perfect addition to v6, to liven-up the circuit, and continue the evolution of H3, however twas not to be sadly :(, let's hope it makes it for v7. Anybody who wants to run UK customs on it, hit me up.

[Shadow_Dog]

Interesting...

[DeathstarsOG]

I've had a few people ask me if I was going to remake this in Sandbox and the answer to that is NO. I will update a map when it needs it, but there is no point in remaking it when it is already great in Foundry.

Anyways, v1.1 of this map is pretty much ready to go, I'll be looking into running some test games on it before re-releasing it though. The current updates are much more consistent mancannons, minor spawn tweaks and removal of all 4 frags on map(to decrease spamming in bottom mid) stay tuned...

[edisgnorts]

I suppourt this map and bomb 110%, aestetically it looks amazing. I do agree with he possibility that someine mentioned of replacing camo with the OS, since the issue of no bomb arming notification keeps coming up. This would emphasize teamshot and still keep the aspect of an important power-up to control that you and I both like.

[DeathstarsOG]

I suppourt this map and bomb 110%, aestetically it looks amazing. I do agree with he possibility that someine mentioned of replacing camo with the OS, since the issue of no bomb arming notification keeps coming up. This would emphasize teamshot and still keep the aspect of an important power-up to control that you and I both like.
The Camo actually serves a large purpose on this map. If custom were to replace it, it would get burned every time, guarenteed because bottom mid is a nade hole. I purposely put Camo because of what it can do in Bomb. I was tired of seeing powerups that don't even effect gameplay very much if at all, and Camo here affects gameplay dramatically. If your team is timing it like you should be and watching the completely open platform that the bomb plant location is on, then it's not a problem. Another thing the camo does besides force teamwork and coordination is speed up and intensify gameplay. Setups before the camo spawns are notably stronger as people are prepparing to get the other team enough people down to gain that advantage.
If you are the advocate of Bomb that you say you are, get some customs together and run atleast 4-5 games on it(with even teams). Then come back with results. Thanks for the support and hopefully we can push harder to get Bomb on the circuit.

[BjorgeBros]

I 2v2 this map yesterday played really nice. Cant wait to do some 4v4 on it. Love the bases and center map beautifully constructed. This should definitly be in MLG! Only thing is camo. I'm not positive about it yet. I know custom wouldnt work because it would be burnt a lot but maybe a mauler. I will play this map some more and experiment with a mauler and let you know. Also i played ball in game and it went to the other side but it went through the other mancannon and came back to me. Incredible job hope to see more maps from you!

[Kave]

Downloading...

[EG_Last_Boss]

If they don't remove a map please let them add this as a new one.