Retrospect (pics in post)

[TheRetro]

Been a while, but I finally got back on the forge forums here, and I come bearing gifts! Among them, good news: I've finally officially released my map, Retrospect. It's been a long time in the making. With over 50 hours of work put into it, this map has been quite the project for me. Which is why I'm proud to finally release the map.

The map is symmetrical, 2 base, but unlike any foundry map you've played before. In fact, the general consensus seems to be that people think it reminds them of Warlock. I've also had mentions of Sanctuary and Midship. It's made for Team Slayer or CTF, although FFAs work really well on it too (and possibly other gametypes?)

Retrospect (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=65090718) (click here to go to bungie.net download page)

Instead of going on describing the map, I'll just show some pictures.

General Overview:
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076407_4166.jpg

Red Base:
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076400_2644.jpg

Blue Base:
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076416_6045.jpg

Red Base to top B:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076401_2848.jpg

Blue Base to top A:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076417_6239.jpg

Top B to top mid:
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076402_3027.jpg

Top A to top mid:
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076415_5850.jpg

Top Mid (custom in box):
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076410_4842.jpg

Jumpups in pillars:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076409_4617.jpg

Bottom A/ A box
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2169/244/47/60155878473/n60155878473_2076414_5661.jpg

Sniper Rifles spawn on A and B every 2 minutes, but only have 1 spare clip as opposed to the normal 2. Custom powerup spawns in that box top mid on 3 minutes respawn time.
These are topics that are still in debate, so voice your opinion on them by posting a reply!

I hope you like it. If you have any comments, questions, suggestions, etc. please don't hesitate to post.

[UnknOWNBAMF]

Sanctuary inspired. Good choice.
pic review:
Open. Not alot of versatility in the map flow, as you travel in the diagonal and around the square that is merged with the walls. There isn't much incentive to leave the area you spawn because a strong team BR will never have to move anywhere, regardless of power weapons-because they will most likely be in the center, which can easily be team shot up.

[TheRetro]

You're right... however the pillars cut down so much on the long range shots, you really have to push out to be able to get going. Nonetheless, any suggestions on how to improve the map?

[DeathstarsOG]

The map needs alot of work. There seams to be a lack of design and creativity. All over the outside perimeter of the map are what we call "Lazy Cover". This wis where you just place random objects to create cover in open areas. You seam to have replaced any real structures with this method. I see a pattern that goes around the map on the second level like this: Barrier, dumpster, dumpster, barrier, wall, barrier, sign, sign, wall. It's reapeted on the other side of the map. Try going through the map design sticky and learn a bit more about good map making.
Also the center piece needs a bit more work. It feels as if it were just thrown together and the four Standing double box towers aren't really structures but more of something to block LOS. Other that that, they serve no real purpose.
Don't take this criticism the wrong way. Read the sticky, improve the map and come back here with something great.

[TheRetro]

The map needs alot of work. There seams to be a lack of design and creativity. All over the outside perimeter of the map are what we call "Lazy Cover". This wis where you just place random objects to create cover in open areas. You seam to have replaced any real structures with this method. I see a pattern that goes around the map on the second level like this: Barrier, dumpster, dumpster, barrier, wall, barrier, sign, sign, wall. It's reapeted on the other side of the map. Try going through the map design sticky and learn a bit more about good map making.
Also the center piece needs a bit more work. It feels as if it were just thrown together and the four Standing double box towers aren't really structures but more of something to block LOS. Other that that, they serve no real purpose.
Don't take this criticism the wrong way. Read the sticky, improve the map and come back here with something great.

They're not randomly placed. It's called pillars. They're not "lazy", they're there because there aren't any other narrow objects like them. They're like the columns in the bases on Sanctuary. I didn't want full walls there. "Good map making"... I didn't realise I had to conform to the strict rules that someone else wrote for my map to be considered "good".

Nothing was placed randomly on this map. I structured them with specific reasons. The A and B signs were used to have something tangible to call out, instead of like, Red snipe spawn area, etc. And the whole purpose of the double box towers was EXACTLY to block LOS. Otherwise the map was ridiculously open and you could kill someone from just about anywhere. "Other than that, they serve no real purpose" ... that's the same as saying chairs are good to sit on, but other than that they're no good. They do exactly what they're meant for.

I'm sorry I didn't make yet another of the EXACT same map that looks EXACTLY the same following the EXACT guidelines somebody else wrote. I didn't realise I had to do things someone else's way for MY creation to be good.

Read the sticky on individual thought and come back with good feedback.

[I_Knossos_I]

Whats up retro, its Knossos. I was the guy who you were gonna be on a team with when me and koda had the clan going. Did you get my message? You should add me on my account HezbollaHector, ill show you how to fix up your map and give you some ideas.

[ssshakedown]

I'm sorry I didn't make yet another of the EXACT same map that looks EXACTLY the same following the EXACT guidelines somebody else wrote. I didn't realise I had to do things someone else's way for MY creation to be good.

Read the sticky on individual thought and come back with good feedback.
If you actually read the sticky about map design you'd know that there are no "exact" standards or ways to make a map. There are some broad guidelines and "don't do's" and basic information on what makes a good map. There's nothing exact about them.

He was just trying to help you, there's no need to get defensive when his post had nothing in the way of an attack on you or your map, just some solid (imo) advice. If you post a map and then jump down someone's throat the instant they post something besides "Looks sick, DLing now," no one will download the map or care to give it a second look.

A lot of the posts around here can seem stuck up at times, but that's mostly because they love you. <3

Anyways, Deathstars was right for the most part. Some of the cover is "lazy" cover (i.e. pillars or dumpsters), when your cover should be part of your geometry. I don't mean geometry as in interlocking a wall or whatever instead of using a dumpster, but that the map should provide cover in its actual design and layout, rather than there being a need for sporadic pillars or dumpsters. One or two is fine, but around your bases especially there seems to be nothing but pillars or dumpsters. Maybe use some single boxes interlocked to create tunnels or something to that effect, because right now your bases seem really open and a dumpster or two won't fix that.

About all those jump-ups: don't use so many. Again, one or two when necessary is okay, but they kinda ruin the flow of the map, when you have to be worrying about jumping around while under fire or in a BR confrontation. In the fourth and last screenshots for example, those dumpsters should be geomerged double boxes or walls or bridges or even stairs.

And finally, the middle structure. From what I can see it looks really unique and creative, but it seems like it also inhibits the flow around the middle portion of the map a bit. I might try adding a way from the bottom middle of the map to the second level of your middle structure, just to make the whole thing more accessible. Some catwalks running around the map at the height of the third level of your middle structure might be a neat thing to try as well.

[TheRetro]

If you actually read the sticky about map design you'd know that there are no "exact" standards or ways to make a map. There are some broad guidelines and "don't do's" and basic information on what makes a good map. There's nothing exact about them.

He was just trying to help you, there's no need to get defensive when his post had nothing in the way of an attack on you or your map, just some solid (imo) advice. If you post a map and then jump down someone's throat the instant they post something besides "Looks sick, DLing now," no one will download the map or care to give it a second look.

A lot of the posts around here can seem stuck up at times, but that's mostly because they love you. <3

Anyways, Deathstars was right for the most part. Some of the cover is "lazy" cover (i.e. pillars or dumpsters), when your cover should be part of your geometry. I don't mean geometry as in interlocking a wall or whatever instead of using a dumpster, but that the map should provide cover in its actual design and layout, rather than there being a need for sporadic pillars or dumpsters. One or two is fine, but around your bases especially there seems to be nothing but pillars or dumpsters. Maybe use some single boxes interlocked to create tunnels or something to that effect, because right now your bases seem really open and a dumpster or two won't fix that.

About all those jump-ups: don't use so many. Again, one or two when necessary is okay, but they kinda ruin the flow of the map, when you have to be worrying about jumping around while under fire or in a BR confrontation. In the fourth and last screenshots for example, those dumpsters should be geomerged double boxes or walls or bridges or even stairs.

And finally, the middle structure. From what I can see it looks really unique and creative, but it seems like it also inhibits the flow around the middle portion of the map a bit. I might try adding a way from the bottom middle of the map to the second level of your middle structure, just to make the whole thing more accessible. Some catwalks running around the map at the height of the third level of your middle structure might be a neat thing to try as well.

Well I hate to "jump at someone's throat" but I hate more when I'm told I have to do things someone else's way for it to be right. The things I did, I did for a reason.

I'd love to fix any of those things... but unfortunately I don't have unlimited budget or items for stuff like jumpups. In fact at this point all I have are corner walls, a few open single boxes, and a few bridges. I used dumpsters for jumpups because they're not too wide, they provide a good jumpup, as well as some cover.

I understand what you mean by all the jumpups making motion a little more awkward, but some things are hard to change when they're integral to many parts of a map... it's kinda like pulling an orange out of the front of the pile at the grocery store... chances are, the rest will come tumbling... so I gotta find a way of working out some of those problems.

And to be honest, those "lazy" cover objects at the front of the bases are like that for a reason. I didn't want lots of cover, in fact, those were kind of Sanctuary-inspired. There isn't much cover in the bases on that map, but it still works. It wasn't a matter of geometryof the rest of the map, or being lazy, it was just part of the greater picture. Going beyond the fact that they might not look as "clean" as whatever concoction of interlocking or geoglitching of bridges anyone else would want in their do's and don't's to see how it would look were this a normal Bungie made map. Of course, I don't have the budget to put a roof on my bases like I would have liked, but I kind of like the way my map looks and feels compared to everyone else who does theirs by the book.

I'm capable of taking feedback. But don't come in here telling me there's some golden rule and I'm not following it and my map will never be good without it. Especially when you haven't seen what I have to work with, nor have you played it to see the dynamic it gives.

[DeathstarsOG]

Obviously you can't take feedback. And noone said you have to follow any "golden rules" placed by previous forgers. The guide I was reffering you to is not a ****in rule book. It's a book of knowledge. Apparently you don't need the schooling as your map is perfect in every way, shape and form. My first post in your thread was well put, informative, helpfull and gave reasons to my suggestions. Now I'm just going to be a plain **** and say F U C K YOU. If you don't want to take feedback by members that know what there talking about, you shouldn't be here. On another note, your map is ****in garbage and I hope you DIAF. kthxbai

[TheRetro]

Well evidently you didn't read MY "well put, informative and helpful" reasons for why they're like that. As for your accusations of "random" placement, you'd think the "Van Gogh of forge" would have an appreciation for the abstract.

Evidently my map is garbage because you say it is, O grand leader of forge mastery. I guess I'll go "DIAF" because you say to.

Have a nice day! :D

[b0b43]

Look, everyone calm down. Deathstars, there is no reason to blow up at him. And TheRetro, you are really lucky that you are actually getting feedback from some of the people that really know their stuff. You would rarely get a post actually reviewing your map by a top forger these days so consider yourself lucky. It is only OPINION, and it does not mean that you should take every word as gospel, nor should you assume that everythink he says is wrong.

Now that I have that out of the way, I'm going to start. Firstly, from a 2-d angle, your design is great, but from a 3-d perspective it is quite poor. The map is essentially on 2 levels - the ground and the first floor. There is almost no variation from those two floors bar a very small number of areas. Look at a map like Midship - if you are fighting from one platform to another, you will never be shooting someone on the same z-axis as you (unless you are shooting to the other side of the map. You can apply this to most of any H2 maps and GOOD Halo 3 maps. Variation on the z-axis is a key to design.

The flow of the map is kind of poor as well. In total, I counted 4 ramps placed on the map. I also counted 16 jump-ups. These really ruin the flow and is a very easy way to tell good maps from the rest. Again, take a look at any Halo map and you will see that everywhere has a ramp leading to it. Jump-ups are only used when having a shortcut to another area.

Now I know the lazy cover has been pointed out, but it is really important that you understand what it means. It does not mean that you were lazy in map design and placed cover around the map, it means that you should have cover from the actual map geometry, not just barriers and dumpsters. Obviously, EVERY map has cover like this, but the good ones only use it in moderation.

Now the spawns. All of them have just been roughly placed around the perimeter of the map, and very few actually provide decent amount of safety off spawn. There is not much I can really say about the spawns other than that. And also, as a side note, generally when you place a single spawn area for corner to corner inverse symmetrical maps, you will want to place a circular spawn area with the center of the circle at the very back corner of your base. This means that you will always spawn within an equal distance of your base. The way they are set up now means that you can spawn a lot closer to your enemies base than your own, and vice versa.

Now that is all I have to say. This is OPINION, not fact. These are CONVENTIONS, not rules. Conventions can be broken, but if you are going to break it you must make sure that you break them with thought and planning, otherwise they will just mean that your final result will be a lot worse.

[TheRetro]

Look, everyone calm down. Deathstars, there is no reason to blow up at him. And TheRetro, you are really lucky that you are actually getting feedback from some of the people that really know their stuff. You would rarely get a post actually reviewing your map by a top forger these days so consider yourself lucky. It is only OPINION, and it does not mean that you should take every word as gospel, nor should you assume that everythink he says is wrong.

Now that I have that out of the way, I'm going to start. Firstly, from a 2-d angle, your design is great, but from a 3-d perspective it is quite poor. The map is essentially on 2 levels - the ground and the first floor. There is almost no variation from those two floors bar a very small number of areas. Look at a map like Midship - if you are fighting from one platform to another, you will never be shooting someone on the same z-axis as you (unless you are shooting to the other side of the map. You can apply this to most of any H2 maps and GOOD Halo 3 maps. Variation on the z-axis is a key to design.

The flow of the map is kind of poor as well. In total, I counted 4 ramps placed on the map. I also counted 16 jump-ups. These really ruin the flow and is a very easy way to tell good maps from the rest. Again, take a look at any Halo map and you will see that everywhere has a ramp leading to it. Jump-ups are only used when having a shortcut to another area.

Now I know the lazy cover has been pointed out, but it is really important that you understand what it means. It does not mean that you were lazy in map design and placed cover around the map, it means that you should have cover from the actual map geometry, not just barriers and dumpsters. Obviously, EVERY map has cover like this, but the good ones only use it in moderation.

Now the spawns. All of them have just been roughly placed around the perimeter of the map, and very few actually provide decent amount of safety off spawn. There is not much I can really say about the spawns other than that. And also, as a side note, generally when you place a single spawn area for corner to corner inverse symmetrical maps, you will want to place a circular spawn area with the center of the circle at the very back corner of your base. This means that you will always spawn within an equal distance of your base. The way they are set up now means that you can spawn a lot closer to your enemies base than your own, and vice versa.

Now that is all I have to say. This is OPINION, not fact. These are CONVENTIONS, not rules. Conventions can be broken, but if you are going to break it you must make sure that you break them with thought and planning, otherwise they will just mean that your final result will be a lot worse.

Finally! Proper feedback! I agree, the spawn system needs work. But as for the lazy cover, I can't think of anything that would work, given my current restrictions. If you have any suggestions, let me know. I've got some ideas for varying on the dumpster jumpups, etc. But I do like the jumpups inside the 4 columns to get top mid, so those I want to keep, but I'm considering adding ramps in some areas.

[b0b43]

O.K. a quick list on what I would change:

-Raise middle, only by a few walls, make it a real power position
-Remove some of the lazy cover (eg dumpsters in base, around the snipe spawn) - it us up to you how much and what you remove
Either:
-Raise a few walls higher (not same as middle) and place a lift to get up there
OR
-Leave snipe spawn as it is but add a staircase up
-Place a staircase parallel to the walkway going from base to snipe, facing the base. Stick a wall out so when you get off the staircase you can walk onto that and walk onto the catwalk
-Geomerge some things that really should be merged (eg stairs going to red base, single open box near snipe spawn unless you delete it for a staircase)
-Fix up some current geos so they are straight/do not texture glitch
-Fix up spawns, make sure every spawn will not put someone in a disadvantageous position.
-Read this (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201233), and use it

Look, don't spend too much time on this map. You will be much better off creating a new idea and going from there. Make sure something in it is new and original, take all this advice you have been given and go from there. I suggest creating an assymetrical map. Make a Version 2 of this, then leave it and move on.

[TheRetro]

add me, we can go over some stuff on XBL together. I have some other ideas but I'd rather show you than describe on here.

[DeathstarsOG]

Well evidently you didn't read MY "well put, informative and helpful" reasons for why they're like that. As for your accusations of "random" placement, you'd think the "Van Gogh of forge" would have an appreciation for the abstract.

Evidently my map is garbage because you say it is, O grand leader of forge mastery. I guess I'll go "DIAF" because you say to.

Have a nice day! :D
It doesn't matter what you say. You don't know what you are talking about. And when people that DO know what there talking about try to help you, you act like you know everything. It is called Lazy cover because you are being lazy by putting it there. The only time you add lazy cover to a map is when all the real geometry has been placed and thats all you have left or thats all budget permits. This is not the case in your map as it is filled with lazy cover. Theres also very vew actual ramps to lead to higher ground. Instead there are jump ups every where. Jump ups are fine when they are either built into the map or used in moderation. Not just put somewhere cause you were to lazy to put a ramp.
And there is a difference between "abstract" and "lack of planning". And yes, If I say your map is garbage, it probably is. I would have no problem helping you or any other decent forger as I do it all the time. The fact that little sh*theads like you think you know everything is what gets to me. So yes, go DIAF cause if you don't want actuall advice you have no business posting your crappy maps here that bump the good ones down.

EDIT: I'm glad a few others can be nice, but I can't now.

[TheRetro]

It doesn't matter what you say. You don't know what you are talking about. And when people that DO know what there talking about try to help you, you act like you know everything. It is called Lazy cover because you are being lazy by putting it there. The only time you add lazy cover to a map is when all the real geometry has been placed and thats all you have left or thats all budget permits. This is not the case in your map as it is filled with lazy cover. Theres also very vew actual ramps to lead to higher ground. Instead there are jump ups every where. Jump ups are fine when they are either built into the map or used in moderation. Not just put somewhere cause you were to lazy to put a ramp.
And there is a difference between "abstract" and "lack of planning". And yes, If I say your map is garbage, it probably is. I would have no problem helping you or any other decent forger as I do it all the time. The fact that little sh*theads like you think you know everything is what gets to me. So yes, go DIAF cause if you don't want actuall advice you have no business posting your crappy maps here that bump the good ones down.

EDIT: I'm glad a few others can be nice, but I can't now.


Oh no, the forum hero said I don't know what I'm talking about. Apparently somebody made you the grand authority on who knows stuff and who doesn't know anything. If you're not happy with my work, just leave. You don't have to come back in here flaming me cause I don't just obey everything you say. And just because some Foundry hero thinks my map is garbage doesn't make me lose sleep. In fact I couldn't care less.

I wasn't looking for an opinion from a Forge hero perspective, I was looking for an opinion from a player's point of view. I don't care if people think my design is lazy, if it provides the amount of cover proper to the map I designed, then so be it.

Somebody here has a superiority complex, and it ain't me. And telling me I don't know what I'm talking about doesn't make sense, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may say my map sucks, but I have countless others saying it's amazing. Why? Because they don't scrutinize every little bit of the map for amount of effort and forge properness put into it. They just play the game.

I understand the jumpups thing, and yes, it's something I'll need to work with. But stop telling me my design is lazy, because it's EXACTLY how I planned it. I just wanted narrow cover. I don't care about map geometry, etc.

[DeathstarsOG]

Oh no, the forum hero said I don't know what I'm talking about. Apparently somebody made you the grand authority on who knows stuff and who doesn't know anything. If you're not happy with my work, just leave. You don't have to come back in here flaming me cause I don't just obey everything you say. And just because some Foundry hero thinks my map is garbage doesn't make me lose sleep. In fact I couldn't care less.

I wasn't looking for an opinion from a Forge hero perspective, I was looking for an opinion from a player's point of view. I don't care if people think my design is lazy, if it provides the amount of cover proper to the map I designed, then so be it.

Somebody here has a superiority complex, and it ain't me. And telling me I don't know what I'm talking about doesn't make sense, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may say my map sucks, but I have countless others saying it's amazing. Why? Because they don't scrutinize every little bit of the map for amount of effort and forge properness put into it. They just play the game.

I understand the jumpups thing, and yes, it's something I'll need to work with. But stop telling me my design is lazy, because it's EXACTLY how I planned it. I just wanted narrow cover. I don't care about map geometry, etc.
Wow, I'm now the forge hero, the foundry hero, and the forums hero. You are the exact reason why there is a thing called natural selection. Go get hit by a bus....and take your map with you.

[eminemcrony]

Words cannot describe what just happened there... but I can reuse a picture that has never failed to describe such moments.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/tallok/rofl-pwnt.jpg

[TheRetro]

Wow, I'm now the forge hero, the foundry hero, and the forums hero. You are the exact reason why there is a thing called natural selection. Go get hit by a bus....and take your map with you.


</3

You're right, intelligent counterarguments are for losers, I should be like you and use personal attacks, cause that would make me more credible.

[TheRetro]

Words cannot describe what just happened there... but I can reuse a picture that has never failed to describe such moments.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/tallok/rofl-pwnt.jpg


Go back to /b/.

[black_jeesus]

lol.

[ZoroSeerus]

I should go back to b.net where maps like these are amazing because they have interlocking on it and the creator talks highly of them.
O hai I fixed your quote for you.

[TheEpicCiabatta]

You should consider submitting this to Atlas. This map could really give Smashed a run for its money.

Also, I appreciate that you insulted the guide I took a lot of time to write and that you obviously didn't read. It's stickied for a reason.

[eminemcrony]

You should consider submitting this to Atlas. This map could really give Smashed a run for its money.
This.

[2AMPd]

Im glad to see your map turned out how you planned. Thats an interesting tactic, you planned an absolutely horendous map, and you succeeded in creating it! Cheers!

[The_Raging_Beast]

Im glad to see your map turned out how you planned. Thats an interesting tactic, you planned an absolutely horendous map, and you succeeded in creating it! Cheers!
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr162/tsaeBgnigaRehT/House-oh_snap.gif

[TheRetro]

Well then, I'd like to apologize for jumping into your giant elitist circlejerk of a forum. I didn't realise you had to be really snooty and bend over for anyone who happens to have a higher post count than your own to be a part of this. Granted, I've seen your maps, they have some complicated forge techniques. But I've also seen that most of them are so complex, nobody other than forgers wants to play them. Giant mishmashes of catwalks and making everything out of doubles boxes and walls seems to reign supreme, and I guess I just don't fit into that club. I didn't realise simplicity means garbage.

So now, if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do, so I'll let you guys stroke eachother off to your maps made by you for you.

And now, the onslaught of insults towards me and my map continues. Fire away!

(p.s. Do keep in mind the more you guys post replies, the more this thread gets bumped, the more people see the map. If giving the map exposure is what you want, you're doing a hell of a job.)

[eminemcrony]

Well then, I'd like to apologize for jumping into your giant elitist circle jerk of a forum. I didn't realise you had to be really snooty and bend over for anyone who happens to have a higher post count than your own to be a part of this. Granted, I've seen your maps, they have some complicated forge techniques. But I've also seen that most of them are so complex, nobody other than forgers wants to play them. Giant mishmashes of catwalks and making everything out of doubles boxes and walls seems to reign supreme, and I guess I just don't fit into that club. I didn't realise simplicity means garbage.

So now, if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do, so I'll let you guys stroke each other off to your maps made by you for you.

And now, the ONSLAUGHT of insults toward me and my map continues. Fire away!

(p.s. Do keep in mind that, the more you guys post replies, the more this thread gets bumped, the more people see the map. If giving the map exposure is what you want, you're doing a hell of a job.)
Haha... you're punny!

Well, good maps get bumped so people can see what shining examples of awesomeness they entail; does anyone think that bad maps (or maps with asshat OPs) should get bumped so people will know to take the advice of those with "higher post counts?"

[TheEpicCiabatta]

Well then, I'd like to apologize for jumping into your giant elitist circlejerk of a forum. I didn't realise you had to be really snooty and bend over for anyone who happens to have a higher post count than your own to be a part of this. Granted, I've seen your maps, they have some complicated forge techniques. But I've also seen that most of them are so complex, nobody other than forgers wants to play them. Giant mishmashes of catwalks and making everything out of doubles boxes and walls seems to reign supreme, and I guess I just don't fit into that club. I didn't realise simplicity means garbage.

So now, if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do, so I'll let you guys stroke eachother off to your maps made by you for you.

And now, the onslaught of insults towards me and my map continues. Fire away!

(p.s. Do keep in mind the more you guys post replies, the more this thread gets bumped, the more people see the map. If giving the map exposure is what you want, you're doing a hell of a job.)

This is what happens when someone refuses to listen to feedback.

[The_Raging_Beast]

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr162/tsaeBgnigaRehT/NO_U.jpg

[eminemcrony]

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr162/tsaeBgnigaRehT/NO_U.jpg

EPIC.

I laughed for 5 minutes straight, no lie.

[DeathstarsOG]

Us bumping this thread is NOT going to make your map better. You wanna know how to make it better? Listen to peoples advice. Let me show you the process of learning: It starts with reading/trying, then you ask questions if you need help, then you LISTEN to the answers. No one just starts doing something and automatically does it perfectly. I've made plenty of crappy maps. But I learned from what I did wrong from the feedback that people gave me, and I improved.
I don't know what to tell you kid. You obviously don't want the feedback. When my map made v6 testing, I got some REDICULOUSLY harsh feedback. Like no suggestions for improvement and people that haven't even played the map just saying litterally "lol, how did this make v6 testing"
Learn to take feedback as it's not always going to be what you want to hear, but instead what you need to hear.
This is my last post in this thread so take it for what it's worth.

[Mech-Warrior-21]

It looks a really nice map & I like how it's kind of set up like Sanctuary a little bit. I'm not so sure about having sniper rifles on a foundry map, but I'll have to try it.