Skybox - Sandbox Skybubble Canvas

[Baron Saturday]

I has made a Sandbox Canvas with all default scenery Items, weapons, vehicles, nades, respawn points/areas, Objective spawns/returns/markers moved up to the skybubble. There is a two way tele up there that links to the crypt, items can be dragged through the tele and placed there.

There seems to be some issues with setting default scenery items to not spawn, such as items not staying where they are put, I recommend you dont do it. I recommend spawning items to build your map until you run out of items, then start using the default items. Delete what you dont need at the end or if you run into budget issues.

Thanks to KC for helping me move the objects.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w266/Baron_2007_2007/skybox.jpg

Skybox - Sandbox Skybubble Canvas (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=67122172)

[6thWonder]

Good Post

[Mango221]

Thanked you in the other thread too...but posting here so it doesn't get lost in translation!

Is there any advantage to having the stuff moved up to the sky bubble, instead of just leaving it on the main floor? Just because the skybox is so big?

-Mango

[PulseKiller]

You even make your canvas clean... what the hell Baron....

[Baron Saturday]

@Mango:
It makes it more convenient if you are building something epic in the skybubble, as you wont need to keep moving to the groundfloor via tele to fetch things if you need them. It also makes it more convenient to build something on the surface as everything has been moved out of the way for you. It also makes building in the crypt more convenient as all of the default objects are lined up in groups and easy to find.

Its also nice to know exactly where all of the default items are, so that you dont accidentally delete any of them.

[Mango221]

Excellent...

Oh hey, one more thing, do we have to worry about forging away from the teleporters? I don't think we want anyone warping away from our maps...hopefully they're either removable or forge only.

-Mango

[istunnahi956]

I also heard about these "Lift Blockers" on Assembly and was wondering if you can supply a pic of what these might look like or some info.

[Baron Saturday]

@Mango:
There is a two way tele on the map already that links the surface to the skybox, this cannot be deleted. I have spawned two way teles from the skybox to the crypt so you can drag items through through, just delete them when you are finished. I have set them to channel 10 so that they wont interfere with any teleporters you may want to use in the map.

@Stunnah:
will get a pic up in the Kon and Baron thread later. They fit snugly over the bottom of the lifts in each base. They have soft edges so may be some geomerging potential in them

[xXTartarusXx]

this is off-topic buuuuut, is assembly any good? does it have potential?

[PulseKiller]

I am gonna post this here because there is less of a chance of it getting lost, but how high is the invisible boundry above the sky bubble? I read on ForgeHub that it is about 16-17 boxes above the main floor, but I didnt see anything about the bubble. And Baron, thansk for answering all these, we all know you would rather be forging it up on Halo.

[Mango221]

this is off-topic buuuuut, is assembly any good? does it have potential?

Assembly definately has potential, I anticipate that it will become a favourite of many people.

-Mango

[D00Man8]

That looks like it will be really helpful. Thanks Baron and KC. I have question though. Do the items sit more flush than they do in say Foundry? Or do you still have to interlock to get a gapless floor?

[istunnahi956]

@Mango:
There is a two way tele on the map already that links the surface to the skybox, this cannot be deleted. I have spawned two way teles from the skybox to the crypt so you can drag items through through, just delete them when you are finished. I have set them to channel 10 so that they wont interfere with any teleporters you may want to use in the map.

@Stunnah:
will get a pic up in the Kon and Baron thread later. They fit snugly over the bottom of the lifts in each base. They have soft edges so may be some geomerging potential in them


Thanx. On Sandbox is merging objects such as Double boxes impossible now? and if you put them next to each other instead of merging them, are they smooth and non bumpy as you run along them? Sorry if i dont make sense.lol.

[yourself.]

Thanks Baron !!!

[Longhorn9024]

this is kind of an off topic question but if someone falls off a map made on the sky bubble will they die or will they just land in the second floor of the level?

[WheezyMoney]

this is kind of an off topic question but if someone falls off a map made on the sky bubble will they die or will they just land in the second floor of the level?

they die. but what if you play ball over the edge. does it play or does it just fall to the main area. that would suck

[Mango221]

this is kind of an off topic question but if someone falls off a map made on the sky bubble will they die or will they just land in the second floor of the level?

They die, the question is just when...do they die at the 'floor' or after it?

-Mango

[nicka]

Thanks so much Baron.
I truly appreciate that you are helping us all out, and we can get right to forging on the third instead of doing the dirty work.

Congrats again on getting a code

[PulseKiller]

They die, the question is just when...do they die at the 'floor' or after it?

-Mango

They die when they hit the floor, so you might want to suspend your maps a little.

[istunnahi956]

Thanks so much Baron.
I truly appreciate that you are helping us all out, and we can get right to forging on the third instead of doing the dirty work.

Congrats again on getting a code


Agreed

[iFaTaL.BR]

nice post

[Dave_C0ulier]

wow i really cant wait to see what some of the community forgers can come up with on this map!! its goin to help mlg a lot

[MxMaDsKiLLsx]

Good job Baron I cant wait till i get these maps so i can mess around on them!!!!!!:lol:

[UpperAka]

looks awesome cant wait to see what people make out of it

[Baron Saturday]

@Pulse:
I have no idea of the actual height of the skybubble, I'll get back to you.

@D00Man & Stunnah:
The blocks sit fairly nicely next to each other most of the time, you can run over joins with very minimal or no bump. Some of them have small chips and dents on one edge so you have to rotate till you get the cleaner edge. you will still want to merge blocks to get the smoothest results, and merging some of the shapes gives some impressive aesthetic touches.

@Yourself:
No problem man.

@Longhorn, Wheezy and Mango:
Players die when they hit the grid. for a lockout style fall you want to build your lowest level a far distance above it. Im not sure about the ball, I assume it will play ball when it hits the grid, Ill check and get back to you.

@nicka:
No problem man, it took me about two and half hours to make the canvas so Im taking a break for a while.

@Fatal:
Thanks.

[II_RaMpAnCy_II]

Sandbox is going to be completely win, unlike foundry =\

[MLG_Rico_Suave]

This map is going to be BEAST. All the things forgers will do with it will be amazing.

[Arkkkk]

that is really cool.

[Baron Saturday]

The invisible roof of the skybubble is around 10 blocks high, 10 double blocks on their side.

The oddball does fall all the way through the grid to the surface of sandbox, it will be necessary to reduce reset time drastically to play ball.

@Rampancy & RicoSauve:
Yes indeed, although Foundry still rocks.

[FascistMittens]

Cool. I'm really excited to see what kind of stuff we end up with from Sandbox. Keep the pics coming!

[THAB3AST]

looks cool

[The_Raging_Beast]

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr162/tsaeBgnigaRehT/supriseface.gif

[-XceL-]

Looking good, can't wait until Halo Wars.

[TuPsych]

Great Find

[PH4zED]

One question: Can you still merge objects, geo-merge, and perform all those other nifty forge tricks?

Thanks

[T3st1fy]

The oddball does fall all the way through the grid to the surface of sandbox, it will be necessary to reduce reset time drastically to play ball.
Doesn't look like there is going to be oddball then. Making the reset time miniscule will just screw more things up than it would fix.

[T3st1fy]

One question: Can you still merge objects, geo-merge, and perform all those other nifty forge tricks?

Thanks
From what I understand merging and everything else will be the same, but forgers will have to use the old way of geo-merging since there are no soft objects on sandbox.

[HaloSamurai]

i want these maps so bad

[istunnahi956]

Thnx Baron. Are you gunna test the new map you guys are making when it comes out? if so hit me up. I'm very anxious to see what it looks like. I'm pretty sure you guys will make something amazing. GT= I Stunnah I

[Halo2Brian]

I saw on forgehub that when walls are placed flat in the skybox that when you save and quit they are no long flat when you restart the game. My question is have you also seen this and if you have is there an easy way to avoid this besides not using that object.

Here is a link to what I am talking about with the walls http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-discussion/57338-sandbox-questions-answered-here.html. This also has some more information for some people who haven't seen this yet.

[Encounter.142]

Sandbox is going to be completely win, unlike foundry =\
Not really. Merging will be much harder to do, the crypt walls are messed up, and the walls glitch in the skybubble.

I officially hate Bungie. I love Halo, but Bungie is the most irritating game developer in history. Sandbox is just another disappointment from Bungie. Yes it's better than Foundry in some ways, and yes, I should be grateful for what we get, but Bungie always screws everything up for no reason. *gets prepared to get flamed by Bungie fanboys*

[II_RaMpAnCy_II]

The invisible roof of the skybubble is around 10 blocks high, 10 double blocks on their side.

The oddball does fall all the way through the grid to the surface of sandbox, it will be necessary to reduce reset time drastically to play ball.

@Rampancy & RicoSauve:
Yes indeed, although Foundry still rocks.

To most yes foundry rocks, it's just my opinion i completely dis-like foundry, no matter how you forge it.. it's still that plain square box full of crates and walkways.. just boring and unpleasent to me and the bullet registration is horrid.

[Halo2Brian]

I think the problem with bungie is they must have some of the worst play testers to miss so many bugs in the game. Not one person from bungie tested where or not the object would lay flat on the skybox?

It will still be a great forge map. It does just seem everything bungie comes out with there has to be some type of disappointment with it.

[WheezyMoney]

I saw on forgehub that when walls are placed flat in the skybox that when you save and quit they are no long flat when you restart the game. My question is have you also seen this and if you have is there an easy way to avoid this besides not using that object.

Here is a link to what I am talking about with the walls http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-discussion/57338-sandbox-questions-answered-here.html. This also has some more information for some people who haven't seen this yet.

its unfixable. in foundry if you put a double box on its side in foundry it re-adjusts much like the walls on sandbox. we dont have any ideas on how to fix the problem on foundry.

[Mango221]

The oddball does fall all the way through the grid to the surface of sandbox, it will be necessary to reduce reset time drastically to play ball.

What about the ball falling into a deathsphere? could we have an array of panels to deflect dropped balls to the deathspheres?

-Mango

[LiL_beasT_fiji]

WTF is a crypt, im not a forger so I have no idea what that is can someone tell me please.

[Mango221]

WTF is a crypt, im not a forger so I have no idea what that is can someone tell me please.

It's a large underground area that's a perfect square...nice place for forging.

-Mango

[WheezyMoney]

What about the ball falling into a deathsphere? could we have an array of panels to deflect dropped balls to the deathspheres?

-Mango


no the ball doesnt reset in the death sphere.

[Jackass_Jon]

Doesn't look like there is going to be oddball then. Making the reset time miniscule will just screw more things up than it would fix.

Not nescarily. With the current settings, the reset time could just be a play ball, or we could slightly reduce the reset time and teams would be forced to break their ball setups more.

[yourself.]

you could possibly use the kill ball to geo.
I'm preety sure from pictures that it has soft edges.

[Doom_TX]

Sounds like there are some setbacks for forgers to get around but im sure some great maps will be made.

[agent_windex]

Ugh, I cant way till march 3rd.

[HK_Trammell]

I has made a Sandbox Canvas with all default scenery Items, weapons, vehicles, nades, respawn points/areas, Objective spawns/returns/markers moved up to the skybubble. There is a two way tele up there that links to the crypt, items can be dragged through the tele and placed there.

There seems to be some issues with setting default scenery items to not spawn, such as items not staying where they are put, I recommend you dont do it. I recommend spawning items to build your map until you run out of items, then start using the default items. Delete what you dont need at the end or if you run into budget issues.

Thanks to KC for helping me move the objects.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w266/Baron_2007_2007/skybox.jpg

Skybox - Sandbox Skybubble Canvas (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=67122172)
So Baron I sall your post a while ago about getting the mythic map pack on march third and getting some game called halo wars free are you still buying halo wars or no

[Overuled]

could you place a floor just under the skybubble so that when the ball falls it lands on that and gets reset faster?? *shrugs*

meh

i'm sure the almighty forge gods will bring a solution.

[Xrossfade]

your so lucky

[BxB-James]

wow looks very nice, keep up the good work.

[macattak420]

This might have been asked already but are there any new forge items that will b10W OuR m1NdS

[anndras_zodon]

The golf clubs are in fact, wieldable, correct?

[Poptart_Revolt]

This might have been asked already but are there any new forge items that will b10W OuR m1NdS
This along with many of the questions of this thread could be answered by the Bungie Updates, yours specifically could be answered by the Sandbox Toolkit (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=17271), which doesn't provide much for pictures but does give a list of everything on Sandbox. Either this weeks or last weeks Bungie Update also provided lists fro Assembly and Orbital.
If a 9-iron (which is just a Gravity Hammer with a new skin) doesn't blow your mind, the killballs might.

But honestly, everyone, go read the updates, the toolkit, go watch the videos. They will answer most of your questions.

[.Frostbite.]

i hate you:evil:

[.Frostbite.]

im sorry :( I'm just upset that you get early access i still have to wait till the end of March

[FoxKeyes]

15 second ball reset time would probably play pretty well tbh.

[PulseKiller]

im sorry :( I'm just upset that you get early access i still have to wait till the end of March

You could just get Halo wars legendary..

[2kwick]

15 second ball reset time would probably play pretty well tbh.

idk about that. If you grab the ball and throw it off as your whole team dies you have at least 5 seconds after you spawn to get an angle on the ball spawn. Kinda unfair for the team that just destroyed you. Most of the time the ball guy is the last guy to die, and play ball, so chances are the WHOLE team is spawned well before the ball drops again.

[ConnorisMonster]

Baron's a beast

[BL1ND51D3]

sweet

[SforSTA1NL3SS]

I can't wait to get this map! It looks so nice.

[HITtheLIGHTZ]

Basically for those thinking along the lines of guardian or lockout you're going to have to re-think your design. Both those were much better for ball than they ever were for slayer so now we're going to have to think about having less fall to your death spot and a modified ball gametype. Either that or design a lockout styled map with more connectivity designed around slayer or hill or something.


Regardless this is kind of dumb that we can't play ball normally.

[FoxKeyes]

idk about that. If you grab the ball and throw it off as your whole team dies you have at least 5 seconds after you spawn to get an angle on the ball spawn. Kinda unfair for the team that just destroyed you. Most of the time the ball guy is the last guy to die, and play ball, so chances are the WHOLE team is spawned well before the ball drops again.


We'll just have to see how it plays. I think there could be some pros and cons to it.

[PulseKiller]

Basically for those thinking along the lines of guardian or lockout you're going to have to re-think your design. Both those were much better for ball than they ever were for slayer so now we're going to have to think about having less fall to your death spot and a modified ball gametype. Either that or design a lockout styled map with more connectivity designed around slayer or hill or something.


Regardless this is kind of dumb that we can't play ball normally.

yeah... it sucks. It will be a problem for flag also..

[John_Shooter]

Not nescarily. With the current settings, the reset time could just be a play ball, or we could slightly reduce the reset time and teams would be forced to break their ball setups more.

Well, to play ball is essentially 5 seconds or so? Why not have a 10 second reset time? That's not the end of the world. It might be a cheap trick when the clock is under two minutes, but w/e.

[Desabrais]

Does the killball play ball?

If so wouldn't it be possible to, for lack of a better term; funnel the ball into a killball if it falls out of the play area?

[sniper_got_game]

some people ive talked to who got the maps early said that assembly could potentially be an MLG map. what do you think?

[jujumonster]

Does the killball play ball?

If so wouldn't it be possible to, for lack of a better term; funnel the ball into a killball if it falls out of the play area?
The Killball doesn't caues a play ball the ball just sits there

[Angelic-Frost]

looks like a good map

[BeastlyStoll]

Not really. Merging will be much harder to do, the crypt walls are messed up, and the walls glitch in the skybubble.

I officially hate Bungie. I love Halo, but Bungie is the most irritating game developer in history. Sandbox is just another disappointment from Bungie. Yes it's better than Foundry in some ways, and yes, I should be grateful for what we get, but Bungie always screws everything up for no reason. *gets prepared to get flamed by Bungie fanboys*

Stfu Austin, QQ more lol

[eminemcrony]

Contract some guys from ForgeHub to set up a series of Shield Doors to funnel the oddball into a mancannon that will propel the ball onto the original spot.

It's a possibility, probably won't work.

[PulseKiller]

Contract some guys from ForgeHub to set up a series of Shield Doors to funnel an oddball into a mancannon that will propel the ball on the original spot.

It's a possibility, probably won't work.

Major flaw.... Shield doors dont affect an oddball.

[flow23]

Does the killball play ball?

If so wouldn't it be possible to, for lack of a better term; funnel the ball into a killball if it falls out of the play area?

The killball does not play ball. There is a thread on FH with a guy who got the maps and is answering any questions about sanbox.

[T3st1fy]

Major flaw.... Shield doors dont affect an oddball.
They don't when you are holding it obviously, but are you sure they don't affect it when no one is holding it?

[eminemcrony]

Major flaw.... Shield doors dont affect an oddball.
Ok... then do some walls or something like that. The point was to funnel it into a mancannon.

[dylman36]

good idea but would require a huge amount of objects and budget depending on map size

[austindasilva]

i can't wait to see some sweet sandbox forge maps!

[Stosh117]

i love sandbox ! is going to be my favorite halo 3 map ! Nice thread OP

[fanatic66]

That's a shame about not being able to play ball. I don't think building a cone shaped device to funnel the ball if it falls off will help either. It would cost way too many resources. I think our best bet will just to lower the ball reset time to 10 seconds. It'll annoying, but its better than nothing.

[Bieker]

I haven't been paying attention to this Sandbox stuff due to other disappointments, where I spent too much time looking into Bungie's bull ****. Anyways, is Sandbox, the map that was brought around 3 or 4 months ago, where you can basically create a map from yourself? But not like foundry, essentially a blank map and you put whatever you wish on the map. From my understanding you could make The Pit or even a map like Midship from H2 They made this map due to the rights of H3 being given to Microsoft, so the community could make maps for themselves seeing as how no new map packs would be made.

[Zanno]

its unfixable. in foundry if you put a double box on its side in foundry it re-adjusts much like the walls on sandbox. we dont have any ideas on how to fix the problem on foundry.The best way to deal with it is to work with it. Merge one wall at a time along the error and the wall will end up on an extremely subtle slope. Every foundry map that uses walls as floors has had this problem, it is probably just more noticable on sandbox for some reason.

[Mavka]

people are gonna go insane with this stuff. some new maps might be a refreshing way to come back

[PulseKiller]

The best way to deal with it is to work with it. Merge one wall at a time along the error and the wall will end up on an extremely subtle slope. Every foundry map that uses walls as floors has had this problem, it is probably just more noticable on sandbox for some reason.
I think it may be more noticable due to the thinner walls.

[im_an_boss_ok]

sweet looking forward for some great forged maps

[xXJust MadXx]

That's a shame about not being able to play ball. I don't think building a cone shaped device to funnel the ball if it falls off will help either. It would cost way too many resources. I think our best bet will just to lower the ball reset time to 10 seconds. It'll annoying, but its better than nothing.

If they only make parts of the map outside, something like Epitaph, you could do it.

[lilm4n21]

Do you have canvases for the other maps?

[Poptart_Revolt]

If they only make parts of the map outside, something like Epitaph, you could do it.

While I'm not saying this is a bad idea, like the funnel idea it's going to really hurt our maps, resource/design wise.

The only solution I see immediately would be to reduce the reset time for balls/flag to 5 or 10 seconds... 5 seconds seems short, but maybe that's what it's going to have to come to.

It really sucks that the ball going through the bubble doesn't reset it.

[THxNINJA]

you will definitely need to change strategies for playing ball, but ball can still be played. you could just play it in crypt, or use immovable objects to block any attempts to throw the ball out... from there, you can still break a set up, kill the other team and take the ball, they just can't throw the ball and reset and you will have to be able to play the ball from where ever you kill the carrier. it gives the offense (team without ball trying to get it) one less thing to worry about, which means their attacks will be more efficient, but i think some defensive strategies could come out of no playing ball as well, since in a way, defense chooses where offense will start with the ball.

this is assuming that there is no specific reason that people do not play ball on maps that are unplayable that i'm not aware of.

or you could just change the ball time like someone else said. it'd be just for that map, and it would be annoying at first but i think you could easily just get used to it

[theeckounltd]

On Foundry, if you set an object not to spawn at start that was on the original map (not deleted then replaced), then it will not spawn period (even if minimum is set to max).

[XGC FATALITY]

The funnel idea could possibly work, but instead, you would have to set the map up so that mancannons shoot it back toward the middle. Thats just an idea though. I dont know if anybody has brought that possibility yet. If I'm correct, I believe that the map epicenter used something like this where you could throw the bomb through a "funnel" with a mancannon in it and it would shoot it to the center duplicating play ball. Lowering the reset time might be better though. Only time will tell...

[-BaSiK-]

So with a lot of the players here talking about the play ball feature, I was perusing the other Baron and Kon Artist thread when someone mentioned the funnel idea.

This is more to Baron/Kon that anyone else, but is there enough room to maybe build one and have the funnel lead to a series of grav lifts/man cannons to push the ball along a path back to the spawn. Or would you have to change the reset time to lower and just deal with it?

[PHRAGG]

Do I smell a perfect remake for Lockout?

[LiL_beasT_fiji]

It's a large underground area that's a perfect square...nice place for forging.

-Mango

Thanks

[b0b43]

Hey thanks for this, I would plus rep but I'm pretty sure I did yesterday or something.

Maybe make a canvas similar to this in the Crypt and in the sandy hills of the middle? Would be very helpful for when the public gets the maps.

But it does suck that we won't be able to play ball. It looks like we either bare our teeth and deal with it, construct a massive mechanism that would push the ball back up into play, or complain on Bungie.net about how they have made a broken game and needs fixing immediately.

I also thought that maybe each map could have two versions - one for TS and Hill, where you can fall off, and one for CTF, Ball and Bomb, where everything is blocked off or roofed. But that would take up valuable budget and resources. Interesting to see how this issue will pan out.

[BadBall3r]

*Goes to download* Oh that's right I don't have the maps yet. But Thank you so much for this Baron, this will of course become extremely useful for me.

Are you able to make one for the Crypt as well if possible?

[Baron Saturday]

@Everyone:
It might be possible to place a "floor" under the grid, to catch the ball and start the reset timer earlier. Forget funnelling and grav lifts unless you want to make oddball ballett.

@Bob:
It took me over two and a half hours just to move everything into the skybox. I have placed another tele up there so you can drag items to the crypt or the surface easliy. Due tot he nature of the dsefualt items you should use them as a last resort.

[-NaStY-]

Here's how you deal with the ball issue:


A lot of people these days consider play-balling an integral part of oddball. Now while this wasn't always the case and a lot of people (myself included) could make a good argument that you really don't need it at all, it's safe to say that at least official MLG gametype deciders like play-balling in oddball.

But, one thing that all you noobie play-ballers out there can't contest is that play balling has always been a little bit too easy. It should be a sneaky tactic, that if you plan and use in a smart way, can buy you a small reprieve before the team that just 4-down'ed you gets the ball back. Or you can use it as a way to "pass" the ball to somebody who's at its respawn point. Whatever the case, it's a cool trick, but a lot of these floating maps made it way too easy. If you were even moving in the direction of the side of the level, the ball will fall off. So now, when we build on sandbox, we're just going to make it a bigger deal that happens less.

What I'm saying is: Close your map in a lot, but put certain key areas that allow for play-balling. Put high edges and railings on your outer walkways, and make windows to the abyss dangerous to stand in front of. Design your map so that play balling must be a calculated choice and not a knee jerk reaction. That way, when the ball takes 10 or 15 seconds to respawn, you will have earned it.

[BadBall3r]

Good post Nasty, I will have definitely have to think about that while forging. Also does anyone know how long it takes the ball to reset?

[Overuled]

Good post Nasty, I will have definitely have to think about that while forging. Also does anyone know how long it takes the ball to reset?

30 seconds i think?? i'm not sure on that one though.

what if the ball is dropped into the desert outside the map?? does it play ball then?

[stefkeeee]

The oddbal gametype can used you just have fill the grid with Kill-balls.
Bungie said anything that touches the Kill-ball will be destroyd that includes the oddball.

Great post Baron

[Overuled]

The oddbal gametype can used you just have fill the grid with Kill-balls.
Bungie said anything that touches the Kill-ball will be destroyd that includes the oddball.

Great post Baron

unfortunatley kill-balls don't affect the oddball...that's kinda why we're having to think outside the box atm

[Poptart_Revolt]

unfortunatley kill-balls don't affect the oddball...that's kinda why we're having to think outside the box atm

Right, not to mention there are what, 4 killballs?

@Nasty- Building up all these railways, blocking everything off, that demolishes the point of having a map in the sky. The biggest benefit of the sky bubble and the fact we don't need walls anymore. I certainly agree that making the act of playing ball more difficult could result in some much more strategic gameplay, but at this point, I'm not sure I see oddball working on Skybox.

[-NaStY-]

Right, not to mention there are what, 4 killballs?

@Nasty- Building up all these railways, blocking everything off, that demolishes the point of having a map in the sky. The biggest benefit of the sky bubble and the fact we don't need walls anymore. I certainly agree that making the act of playing ball more difficult could result in some much more strategic gameplay, but at this point, I'm not sure I see oddball working on Skybox.

False, the biggest benefit of the sky bubble is that you don't have to geo anything. Ask anyone who has had to do a lot of them. :)

There's plenty of budget on sandbox. Building tall railings isn't the end of the world.


I'm interested to see if sandbox will allow us to make a map that does justice to bomb. Epicenter had some interesting concepts - I think we can do a lot more with 'box to make something that's really professional grade.

[The_Phuria]

False, the biggest benefit of the sky bubble is that you don't have to geo anything. Ask anyone who has had to do a lot of them. :)

There's plenty of budget on sandbox. Building tall railings isn't the end of the world.


I'm interested to see if sandbox will allow us to make a map that does justice to bomb. Epicenter had some interesting concepts - I think we can do a lot more with 'box to make something that's really professional grade.

I agree with the professor

[PulseKiller]

It could be possible to make specific "play ball areas" in which you placed a teleporter that would teleport you above the skybox's boundry above the middle of the map, therefore killing you and the ball dropping into the map. This would still not allow you to make the map floating, but it would allow you to essentially play ball. This could also be used in the crypt, but teleport the person into a death ball in the drop down hole to the crypt.

[fanatic66]

Nasty seems to have the best idea so far (big surprise :)) about how to handle oddball. Adding more depth to the game is always a good thing. And honestly, its so easy to play ball on guardian to the point where some teams actually make a game out of it. Drop the ball, get ready for it to spawn again, pick it up, jump off, and repeat. Maps on skybubble need to have less openings and make those openings strategic so play balling isn't the spur of the moment idea.

[Shockeyyy]

@Nasty- Building up all these railways, blocking everything off, that demolishes the point of having a map in the sky. The biggest benefit of the sky bubble and the fact we don't need walls anymore. I certainly agree that making the act of playing ball more difficult could result in some much more strategic gameplay, but at this point, I'm not sure I see oddball working on Skybox.Just because a map is in the Skybubble doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a wall-less, floating map like Lockout or Ascension. With as much space and budget as we have to build with, it's very feasible to build a map like Nasty described (that is, one that is largely enclosed/indoors but that has pitfalls and drop-offs placed around the map). Think about a map like Damnation -- 90% of that map is an indoor arena where players can walk freely and safely, and 10% of it is an abyss that players cannot traverse (ie. the waterfall area by OS).

I think what Nasty was trying to get at was that, no matter the play-ball situation in the Skybubble, good forgers who create well-designed maps can make Oddball games work well. The fact that it's difficult (to impossible) to accurately emulate a Guardian-style Ball game with a Skybubble map doesn't mean that the gametype is unplayable on such maps, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Baron Saturday]

I think Nasty is really onto something.

I havent fully thought this through, but being able to drop the ball off and have it take longer to reset could be incorporated into a competitive playstyle. A setup style map could include some drops that are away from setup areas, meaning that moving to drop the ball over the side would be more of a tactical decision. This decision would be made (as usual) to prevent the other team from getting ball time, but the extra time before the ball plays could be used by both teams to get a better grip of map control. Ball spawn location would have to be way from the holes or edges, so some time would also be spent returning to that area.

Just throwing some ideas around inside my head, it could all be nonsense.

[i_am_adam]

create a map with multiple setup opportunities, base these setups on how hard it is to play ball? for example having an easily enclosed design which is simple to setup on, giving short term success to the ball carriers team but making it hard to play ball. then create a hard setup design where a better team will succeed and will be easier to play ball and have long term success. kind of like blue room and elbow setups on guardian.

another idea for oddball in the crypt is to incorporate killballs to be used to playball. this would make creating a gametype based around oddball reset times much easier and there would be more competetive merit becuase there would be less places to play ball from only four, maybe less key places and designing would be easier as you wouldnt have to build your map around playing ball everywhere like on the skybubble.

[fanatic66]

create a map with multiple setup opportunities, base these setups on how hard it is to play ball? for example having an easily enclosed design which is simple to setup on, giving short term success to the ball carriers team but making it hard to play ball. then create a hard setup design where a better team will succeed and will be easier to play ball and have long term success. kind of like blue room and elbow setups on guardian.

another idea for oddball in the crypt is to incorporate killballs to be used to playball. this would make creating a gametype based around oddball reset times much easier and there would be more competetive merit becuase there would be less places to play ball from only four, maybe less key places and designing would be easier as you wouldnt have to build your map around playing ball everywhere like on the skybubble.

Sadly killballs don't make the ball disappear. So no playball with killballs (way too many balls in that sentence :razz: ).

[i_am_adam]

Sadly killballs don't make the ball disappear. So no playball with killballs (way too many balls in that sentence :razz: ).

yeah i know that but what i mean is manipulate the killballs so they act as playball areas. i know the ball doesnt dissapear in them.

[b0b43]

yeah i know that but what i mean is manipulate the killballs so they act as playball areas. i know the ball doesnt dissapear in them.

Ummm what do you mean? You can't manipulate the killballs so that the ball plays when you throw it in it, and there is no point placing killballs to have the ball reset in because the ball will fall through the skybox and onto the ground, essentially being a killball in itselft.

Either we create funnels which be absolutely awesome but would take up some budget, create areas where you can play ball onto the ground but severely limit them or just forget about it completely. Or not play oddball at all.

[eminemcrony]

....Or not play oddball at all.

BLASPHEMY

If we could get bomb to work in H3, then we can sure as hell get Oddball to work in the Sky Bubble. I like the idea of making a semi-enclosed map with only a few places to be able to Play Ball. Just have a wall just underneath the sky boundary so the ball can fall on that and begin the countdown to reset.

[General.SwizzY]

You can't play ball in Lockdown.

[i_am_adam]

Ummm what do you mean? You can't manipulate the killballs so that the ball plays when you throw it in it, and there is no point placing killballs to have the ball reset in because the ball will fall through the skybox and onto the ground, essentially being a killball in itselft.

Either we create funnels which be absolutely awesome but would take up some budget, create areas where you can play ball onto the ground but severely limit them or just forget about it completely. Or not play oddball at all.

not in the skybox in the cryt. make it so you throw the ball into the killballs in the crypt so they reset and it acts as a playball.

[dylman36]

yeah i know that but what i mean is manipulate the killballs so they act as playball areas. i know the ball doesnt dissapear in them.
what i think he means is in the sky box dropping the ball doesnt make it play ball but you cant get to it and have to wait for it to reset i think he means use killballs so you have to wait for the ball to reset cause you wont be able to get the ball wen its in a killball just like the skybox

[b0b43]

not in the skybox in the cryt. make it so you throw the ball into the killballs in the crypt so they reset and it acts as a playball.

It still won't work. I am pretty unsure what your train of thought is, but no matter what you do to the killball nothing will make an oddball, or any other objective reset. The only thing that will reset it is the reset timer determined in the gametype.

[-BaSiK-]

you can still build crypt and sky bubble ball maps, midship ball never had a way to play ball so its not necessary for the strategy or needs of a ball map, and lockdown for that matter doesn't either.

[i_am_adam]

It still won't work. I am pretty unsure what your train of thought is, but no matter what you do to the killball nothing will make an oddball, or any other objective reset. The only thing that will reset it is the reset timer determined in the gametype.

sorry if im **** at explaining things lol, anyway: place a killball in the crypt on floor, throw an oddball in, let it drop on to the floor of the crypt in the killball so it starts to reset, change the reset timer to around 10 seconds and there you have your own makeshift little playball area within a map.

[StiffGlock]

I dunno if I'm mistaken but the entrance to the crypt is a hole in the 2nd level. The ball falls onto the second level and stays there playing ball from the skybubble. If it happens to fall in that hole to the crypt does it still hit the ground since its falling for so long? j/w baron. If not the possibility of a funnel to that hole instead of to a mancannon series might work?

[Overuled]

I dunno if I'm mistaken but the entrance to the crypt is a hole in the 2nd level. The ball falls onto the second level and stays there playing ball from the skybubble. If it happens to fall in that hole to the crypt does it still hit the ground since its falling for so long? j/w baron. If not the possibility of a funnel to that hole instead of to a mancannon series might work?

i've been wondering this aswell...i would think it would just keep falling till it hit the floor of the crypt because theres no more kill floors....but hey i'll see if i can get something worked out quickly

EDIT: i only did a quick tunnel using tube pieces but the ball fell all the way down to the crypt...i'm not sure if the ball hitting items affects a "play ball"
But it would be near impossible to make a ball drop into the crypt without it hitting the sides of a funnel..

[StiffGlock]

Was worth a try eh. I was just wondering if maybe the ball fell for such a great length it would automatically reset

[Overuled]

i think the best way to get oddball to work would be like Nasty suggested...and only have a few areas in which to "play ball"

Then just create a floor beneath the grid so that the ball reset timer starts quicker....then just lower the reset timer.

[Mango221]

i think the best way to get oddball to work would be like Nasty suggested...and only have a few areas in which to "play ball"

Then just create a floor beneath the grid so that the ball reset timer starts quicker....then just lower the reset timer.

That's not a solution...

Ball just won't be usable on skybox unless there's no way to play ball...

Unless MLG just decides it's acceptable to have a slower reset and risk it...How would you feel about killing off the whole other team and having the ball disappear as soon as you go for it because it had to be shortened?

-Mango

[TetraCleric]

That's not a solution...

Ball just won't be usable on skybox unless there's no way to play ball...

Unless MLG just decides it's acceptable to have a slower reset and risk it...How would you feel about killing off the whole other team and having the ball disappear as soon as you go for it because it had to be shortened?

-Mango


What if the same reset time was kept, and like Nasty said, you had certain areas to play ball, and also build a floor under the skybox to collect the ball. Because then you'd have to not only keep track of the other team during a play ball, but you'd also have to time the play ball. That could be very very nice.

[StiffGlock]

That's not a solution...

Ball just won't be usable on skybox unless there's no way to play ball...

Unless MLG just decides it's acceptable to have a slower reset and risk it...How would you feel about killing off the whole other team and having the ball disappear as soon as you go for it because it had to be shortened?

-Mango


Maybe they can fix this through an update

[Mango221]

Maybe they can fix this through an update

What have they fixed with an update besides the melees?

Srsly...

-Mango

[StiffGlock]

What have they fixed with an update besides the melees?

Srsly...

-Mango

That's why I said maybe =]

Possible, not probable tho

[Overuled]

That's not a solution...

Ball just won't be usable on skybox unless there's no way to play ball...

Unless MLG just decides it's acceptable to have a slower reset and risk it...How would you feel about killing off the whole other team and having the ball disappear as soon as you go for it because it had to be shortened?

-Mango

I see what your saying but i've never seen the ball get anywhere near the 30 second repawn time on guardian...mostly because it's under control for most of the game...and when the ball carrier is killed(or drops the ball) it will be picked up within a few seconds.
But as was said before Lockdown doesn't have "play ball" areas..and it still works

I don't see why the grid doesn't "kill" the ball though...probably the biggest mistake made by bungie in THIS map pack.

EDIT: i did some searching around and found this quote
Just checked with Dmiller on this.

Use the game engine options to change the reset time on your objective items.

The reset plane is either "on" or "off" as a part of the way this map is built. If the reset plane was set to "on" you couldn't ever travel between the three spaces (crypt, basin, skybubble) with the objective and there was no custom game level solution to this.

This is a known behavior. This is not something we will patch.

So basically the reason we don't get a "play ball", is because you wouldn't be able to make a map where you can take an objective from one level to another...
even though they said they won't patch it...bungie COULD make and release "skybox only", "middle level only" and "crypt only" versions of the maps. where a "play ball" could occur

[FeiGnz]

So basically the reason we don't get a "play ball", is because you wouldn't be able to make a map where you can take an objective from one level to another...
even though they said they won't patch it...bungie COULD make and release "skybox only", "middle level only" and "crypt only" versions of the maps. where a "play ball" could occur

I also read that quote from Luke. It would be possible for them to release a separate version of the map where objective interplay is removed. Although they clearly intended it to be the way it is now, and don't regard it as broken at all, i wouldn't be surprised if they were to release another version to appease a select group of the Forge community. After all, they have done it before. (see: Boundless, Epilogue, Sand TARP, Pit Stop). "Splitbox"?

[_Symbiosis]

(For Sandbox) I thought that Bungie said that the original items did not add to the budget if you delete them?
I started deleting all the stuff originally on the map and my budget raised up from $500 to $1500.:?:

[Overuled]

I also read that quote from Luke. It would be possible for them to release a separate version of the map where objective interplay is removed. Although they clearly intended it to be the way it is now, and don't regard it as broken at all, i wouldn't be surprised if they were to release another version to appease a select group of the Forge community. After all, they have done it before. (see: Boundless, Epilogue, Sand TARP, Pit Stop). "Splitbox"?

yeah...i would think they would, a lot of people we're dissapointed and they have the means to make it happen.

@Symbosis: I think it raises the budgest but not the item limit. So you won't get anymore double blocks to use. So you might aswell use the ones bungie have placed for the MM variant.

[yourself.]

(For Sandbox) I thought that Bungie said that the original items did not add to the budget if you delete them?
I started deleting all the stuff originally on the map and my budget raised up from $500 to $1500.:?:

The original items dont count for the object number limit.

[_Symbiosis]

The original items dont count for the object number limit.
@Symbosis: I think it raises the budgest but not the item limit. So you won't get anymore double blocks to use. So you might aswell use the ones bungie have placed for the MM variant.

Oh, I see. thanks for clearing that up for me.

I dont see why we can't just put a floor beneath the grids to catch the ball and keep the reset time the same.
Sure, it will make the game slower... but then the players could use that time to slay and set up for the next ball. This would be similar to Ssshakedown's idea in KotH [ about having a hill outside the map for 30 seconds or so to let the teams slay and set up ]

I don't think i can find a link to that thread because it's really old.:-(

[RevivaL.]

I can't wait to get the maps.