How do you get/stay creative when designing a map?

[ssshakedown]

Seriously, I've spent hours in Sketchup just messing around, trying to make something that I like and looks like it might play well, and I can never eke more than half of a map out of myself before I "hit the wall" so to speak. It's like Forger's block. I'll finish a neat base, or something that would be a good start for a multi-leveled map, and then I can't think of a way to tie it all together. I just run out of ways to make it fit together and flow nicely. It's extremely frustrating at times.

I look through your guys' Sketchups and maps and it bums me out because I cannot for the life of me design something half as good, even given twice the time. I mean, it's not like Cynosure and Cryptoline are totally, radically new and unheard of designs (obviously no offense meant), they just take all the good qualities of the HeH-style asym and two-base arena maps and perfect them.

So my question(s) to you guys are: do you try and visualize a design in your head before you Sketch it, or do you just jump into Sketchup and start musing? Do you look to other maps or games for inspiration and build from there, or do you do so more subtly, drawing more on memory of basic elements that worked in those games and maps?

I personally have trouble starting a design and then coming back to it after too long because I sort of lose my train of thought. Do you guys normally Sketch the entire design in one sitting, and then just make more minor changes as you perfect it? Or is it a more drawn-out process, with you taking multiple days to just finish the rough Sketch?

I know most of this stuff is personal preference and tendencies, but I'm so frustrated and lost right now that I figure that I might try taking a leaf from a Forger's book and take some inspiration. :p

[black_jeesus]

Creating a good sketchup is part how much you understand of the way the game is played, and part imagination. There is no way for anyone to tell you how to be able to come up with amazing ideas and sketch ups. It seems like to me you're asking if you're doing this right or how should I build off my ideas, how do I make a sketch up period? Building off of ideas is probably 10% knowledge of the game and 90% imagination, so I suppose the ultimate awnser to your question is that it's your imagination that holds you back from creating master peices, sorry but there is no magick sauce to this, you just have to think out side of the box. Some times the best thing to do is just finish your sketch up and if it's terrible just keep on making more and more sketch ups. I believe that if you make multiple failures of sketch ups that it will eventually lead to good sketch ups and the ending result, it will free up that imagination a little. Good luck.

[DimmestBread]

Well, If you can't think of anything, try making a map in an area you havn't tried before. For example, get away from MLG maps for a week or so and forge a casual "fun" map or create a fun mini game or puzzle map.

[_TaK_]

I actually do all my best work in forge. If you look at the sketch I put up in the adoption thread I actually had that designed in forge before I sketched it up. I often like to hope back and forth through lots of peoples forge sessions giving feedback on their design and then I often get a general concept of a design of what I want to make and then I try and work around that. Another thing I like to do it's look through the components list in forge, spawn an object and twirl it around and think to yourself how can I use this in a way no one has seen before. Lastly you really need to just let things come together on their own, and this is much easier in forge than in sketch-up, the more designing you do the easier it will be, so just keep at it and you should see yourself getting better.

One more thing I forgot, let other people help you, I have helped so many people with so many tweaks and designs (Cryptaline and Cynosure for example) because sometimes one person sees something increadibly clearly that another completely misses.

[jack the pown]

I have a similar problem, but it happens that i actually go through the forging process before i hit the wall. I have 3 or 4 maps(on foundry and sandbox) that are within hours of completion, but I just dont have the energy to finish them. its weird. ive only finished like 3 maps since foundrys release, only one with geomerging though which is really time consuming and frustrating at times.

But, for you, it might be that sketchup isnt the way to go. I dont use sketchup. I like to design on the fly, where I can feel like I am being the most creative. The beauty of forge is that if you dont like something you can delete it, with nothing lost except a little time.

So maybe just go into forge and design one of your bases that you like and then just go from there. creativity starts to flow once you see your design come to life.


edit: also, as tak said above me, look through lots of peoples maps. see what you dont like about them. see what doesnt work. this will make it easier for you to figure out what will work.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

I let Tak in my party. Then he usually comes up with some off the wall **** that makes my jaw drop. :p

[b0b43]

I normally start with one central idea, and work the map around from there. Unfortunately, it leaves me stuck for ideas that would complement the map and makes me abandon the map halfway through. I have just started a concept of about 2 rooms for a asymm room-based map in the Crypt, but I don't know what I am going to do for the rest of the map.

I don't really like Sketchup - I know it would probably work for me, but I just don't like it. I feel like I get a negative vide from it or something. It's just not me, and I know if I did use it I might be able to design some good maps, but it isn't my style.

If you are really stuck, just get someone (cough cough Nicka) that knows what they are doing in Sketchup and can produce amazing designs to finish it off for you. Otherwise, just look around for inspiration in the Halo series, other games, or even places in real life. The concept I mentioned earlier started from a room in a house that was simple, but I really liked the way it was set out.

Anyways that is just how I design my maps. It isn't really that efficient and I could probably produce something better if I used Sketchup or actually drew something, but it just isn't my style.

[ooWINGMAN619oo]

I usually make a sketch of the map on a piece of paper im working on a multi level map on sandbox right now so if anyone want to help me ou hit me up on live ooWINGMAN619oo

[_TaK_]

I let Tak in my party. Then he usually comes up with some off the wall **** that makes my jaw drop. :p

lol it's true.

Shake if you want me to look at any of your designs just send me some pics in a PM and I'll see what I can come up with to compliment it.

[Sethiroth87]

With my most recent map that i sketched it started as a dream with 4 ramps then i built from that.

A Couple tips to designing a good map

First- Now what type of map you want to build(Asym,Sysm,4 Base etc.)

Second-Find your favorite maps in the same style.

Third-Play other games like COD, GOW, UT3 and even some RPG games like fallout.

After that find someone in the forge community that you like and show them and ask for ideas. For me its usally Hector, Fritzer, Criag and Any of my friends have made top 32 in MLG.

These are the things that make me finish maps sketchs. I hope that helps you

[nicka]

I normally start with one central idea, and work the map around from there. Unfortunately, it leaves me stuck for ideas that would complement the map and makes me abandon the map halfway through. I have just started a concept of about 2 rooms for a asymm room-based map in the Crypt, but I don't know what I am going to do for the rest of the map.

I don't really like Sketchup - I know it would probably work for me, but I just don't like it. I feel like I get a negative vide from it or something. It's just not me, and I know if I did use it I might be able to design some good maps, but it isn't my style.

If you are really stuck, just get someone (cough cough Nicka) that knows what they are doing in Sketchup and can produce amazing designs to finish it off for you. Otherwise, just look around for inspiration in the Halo series, other games, or even places in real life. The concept I mentioned earlier started from a room in a house that was simple, but I really liked the way it was set out.

Anyways that is just how I design my maps. It isn't really that efficient and I could probably produce something better if I used Sketchup or actually drew something, but it just isn't my style.


lol, yea. ;)
Ssshake, i can take a look and possibly some suggestions if you're stuck.

Personally, when i design a map, i try to take the entire thing as one entity, and not combine certain isolated ideas. By looking at everything as a whole, your design will inevitably translate into something that looks and feels like a real map, where everything is intertwined and combines/flows together so fluently.

That being said, a design most definitely does not have to be finished in one sitting...in fact, i have never been able to accomplish this. I honestly have spent up to 30-45 mins. just staring at my progress of a design in sketchup before i continue on with the design, since i want to make sure that every single element that i add will go along with the map as a whole, and continue that idea of the map being a single entity.

Oh, and i strongly encourage breaks in the designing process also.
Doing so will allow you to process what you have already laid down, and brainstorm ideas that you think will improve and expand upon what you already have.

Hope this helps ssshake, i liked your last design, and i wanna see more :)

[xPurPLe]

For cryptoline, the design was pretty much made for me, except for carbine side, and I tweaked the bases to make them work, so basically i just make other peoples designs =/

[PulseKiller]

Whenever I make maps, I first start out with one general "structure", often times having absolutely no idea what I want the rest of the map to be like. I then build off of that structure and try to make routes into and out of it in places that I feel are necessary. This first structure is usually somewhat inspired by other maps/ideas such as Vanguard's bases are a lot like Sanctuary's, and Cynosure's blue tower is inspired by Hang 'em High. Both of the sketchups for my maps started from these two points.

From there, I try to envision the map in game, and try to figure out what needs cover to make the space not too overpowering, but a point still worth controlling for various reasons (Such as lines of sight, height advantage, power weapon, etc.). After that, I try to put a transition area into the maps to allow some movement between the various main areas. These transition areas are typically areas that are relatively safe to be in, but have little advantage to staying in them. They are typically used less for a set-up area, but more for a place to break setups from, such as *** jump on guardian. It is a transition between blue and gold that isn't a very favorable place to be at, but in order to break a gold/blue set-up, it is very helpful.

After these transition routes are done, I add another area to compliment the original structure. Something such as giving one area a height advantage when the other has a power weapon spawn. The secondary area is typically a little less powerful, but is necessary to control to hold down the main area, such as green on Guardian is crucial to holding down snipe tower, but compared to sniper, it is much weaker. These areas are often typically much safer spawn areas than the original structure.

To balance out these areas, I then add another main area with different bonuses to it than the first area. If the first area has better lines of sight (Guardian snipe tower), then I typically make the other area have something such as more cover (Guardian Gold), or a favorable height position. This gives differnet reasons to hold each side, but yet one is not more favorable than the other.

I then add another side area to link together the final gap. This side area is typically also complimentary to the other transition area, which allows people to hold multiple set-ups. Instead of the Guardian like layout with blue automatically being with gold and sniper automatically being with green, I prefer to make it so that either main area can go with either side area to allow a multitude of setups. This encourages creativity in setups, and allows a lot of diversity.

From there on out, I try to tweak the desing by altering cover and slightly changing lines of sight. I typically change my cover around a lot after forging the map though, because it is much easier to see what needs what when in game. One thing that I also always check when forging a map is that each location has ample routes to get to it. I usually look to make atleast 3+ routes if not more to every main area of the map. From there I just forge the map and change what I believe needs to be changed in game.

Hope this write up helps.

[The_Raging_Beast]

I didn't read everyone elses posts cause im too lazy, but just don't rush a design. Do some work, then work on it when you get some inspiration. Slowly keep working on it and you got a good design.

[iM_xZonKeD]

For cryptoline, the design was pretty much made for me, except for carbine side, and I tweaked the bases to make them work, so basically i just make other peoples designs =/
I designed like 90% of Cryptoline with ideas from Purple (Co-Forger on Foundry Version) and honestly what i find is the best way to designing a map is first getting an idea of what you want in your head. Next make a rough concept of that. Say for example what i did for Cryptoline (Adrenaline Beta) is i first took midships general layout and idea of the map. Then because i hate how everyone use to make dumb simple 2 bases ONslaught clones i tried to make the map unique starting with the bases. The bases was the hardest thing to accomplish. Second, pink was just transfered over to fit halo 3's forge items but not be too overpowering like in H2. For so on and so forth. So depending on what kind of map you like start with something that you really like about it and just start branching of changing things as you go. Good luck.

[ssshakedown]

Whenever I make maps, I first start out with one general "structure", often times having absolutely no idea what I want the rest of the map to be like. I then build off of that structure and try to make routes into and out of it in places that I feel are necessary.See, that's what I've been trying to do since I first started. Build a structure I like and work from there. It hasn't been working at all for me.

However, it seems that our thought processes branch in nearly opposite directions after that initial step, so I'm finding your post to be the most helpful thus far, purely because we think alike, and go about this similarly, so using some of your techniques will be easiest and possibly best for me.

Nicka: I dig your second paragraph. That's a really good way to think of it, and that may have been my downfall so far, because I've been creating structures and trying to connect them. I think what I need to do is kind of think of the whole map as one structure, rather than having crappy throwaway structures connecting the ones I liked.

To you all: you're freakin' awesome. I'm loving all these tips and support, and I'll certainly be PMing or IMing a lot of you when I get stuck for awhile from now on, thanks for all the offerings of help. You all rock.

[Neatohh]

This should be stickied, there are a lot of good tips in here, but that's just my thought.

[nicka]

This should be stickied, there are a lot of good tips in here, but that's just my thought.

stickying it may be a little extreme, but if ciabatta wishes, he can incorporate a lot of it into his sticky

[Neatohh]

stickying it may be a little extreme, but if ciabatta wishes, he can incorporate a lot of it into his sticky
This is true. I really think that he should. I have a hard time just starting my maps, but if I could just get going, I would be fine.

Ciabatta, update you thread with some of this shiz. :D